Buying coins

[choolie 0]

Hi there,

I have recently developed an interest in collecting coins, I am a habitual bargain hunter in all areas of life. I have acquired a few coin catalogues, the coin yearbook, spink and rotographic society books. I find that a lot of dealers seem to be overpricing their coins compared to the catalogues. I have bought a few coins off e-bay and some from a reasonably priced dealer, but where do the dealers get them? Ebay seems overpriced and often inaccurately graded.

Can anyone help.

Thanks

[Peckris 579]

Hi there,

I have recently developed an interest in collecting coins, I am a habitual bargain hunter in all areas of life. I have acquired a few coin catalogues, the coin yearbook, spink and rotographic society books. I find that a lot of dealers seem to be overpricing their coins compared to the catalogues. I have bought a few coins off e-bay and some from a reasonably priced dealer, but where do the dealers get them? Ebay seems overpriced and often inaccurately graded.

Can anyone help.

Thanks

If you're a new collector, forget about tracking down bargains (unless you happen to find them in the course of your searches, but remember that what may seem like a bargain to a newbie may in fact be a dodgy item). The best places to buy to begin with are :

• established dealers, especially ones who are members of a professional trade organisation; befriend one and buy from them and you will learn a lot about coins in return - you sound like you've made a beginning with one already

• from coin fairs - but again, seek out the established dealers, though they will have less time to offer you (but prices are often lower at fairs)

• attend an auction or two, without buying anything until you are a lot more knowledgeable - using your reference books and actually handling coins and talking to dealers are the best ways to get experience

• avoid eBay for now unless you are very sure of yourself or you have very good advice, for two very good reasons : (1) there is so much very very ordinary material (aka rubbish) there, most of which should be left well alone, and (2) the better item often goes for way over book price (as you've noticed) being bought by collectors with more enthusiasm than commonsense; dealers avoid eBay like the plague

Biggest tip? Become good at grading coins. That Rotographic guide will help immensely. Good luck, and remember you can get a lot of help and advice here. We will even advise on eBay lots, as long as you post the url to them in these forums.

[kena 0]

Hi,

Okay...now how does one go about finding dealers and coin fairs (shows) in the UK.

When I lived in the US, finding a dealer and information about shows was easier.

So far, the only place that I found that is close to me that sells coins is a guy who primary business is selling metal detectors.

Purchased online (non-ebay) from two dealers and one of them I probably would not deal with again.

Ken

[Peckris 579]

Hi,

Okay...now how does one go about finding dealers and coin fairs (shows) in the UK.

When I lived in the US, finding a dealer and information about shows was easier.

So far, the only place that I found that is close to me that sells coins is a guy who primary business is selling metal detectors.

Purchased online (non-ebay) from two dealers and one of them I probably would not deal with again.

Ken

The only surviving specialist coin magazine is "Coin News" (monthly - full title "Coin & Banknote News"). If you buy the latest issue of that, you will find dealer adverts and small ads and classifieds, plus there should also be a full event calendar showing all the major fairs. The magazine is usually available in WH Smith.

[choolie 0]

Hi there,

I have recently developed an interest in collecting coins, I am a habitual bargain hunter in all areas of life. I have acquired a few coin catalogues, the coin yearbook, spink and rotographic society books. I find that a lot of dealers seem to be overpricing their coins compared to the catalogues. I have bought a few coins off e-bay and some from a reasonably priced dealer, but where do the dealers get them? Ebay seems overpriced and often inaccurately graded.

Can anyone help.

Thanks

If you're a new collector, forget about tracking down bargains (unless you happen to find them in the course of your searches, but remember that what may seem like a bargain to a newbie may in fact be a dodgy item). The best places to buy to begin with are :

• established dealers, especially ones who are members of a professional trade organisation; befriend one and buy from them and you will learn a lot about coins in return - you sound like you've made a beginning with one already

• from coin fairs - but again, seek out the established dealers, though they will have less time to offer you (but prices are often lower at fairs)

• attend an auction or two, without buying anything until you are a lot more knowledgeable - using your reference books and actually handling coins and talking to dealers are the best ways to get experience

• avoid eBay for now unless you are very sure of yourself or you have very good advice, for two very good reasons : (1) there is so much very very ordinary material (aka rubbish) there, most of which should be left well alone, and (2) the better item often goes for way over book price (as you've noticed) being bought by collectors with more enthusiasm than commonsense; dealers avoid eBay like the plague

Biggest tip? Become good at grading coins. That Rotographic guide will help immensely. Good luck, and remember you can get a lot of help and advice here. We will even advise on eBay lots, as long as you post the url to them in these forums.

Thanks very much I will be going to the linda monk fair in january and see how it goes.

[scottishmoney 18]

Avoid eBay at all cost unless you have established that you know the seller well. eBay is a veritable cesspit of overgraded, and overpriced and misrepresented coins these days.

[scott 129]

not always.. some bargains to be had there if you look

plenty of overgarded coins and general rubbish but you can get one HELL of a bargain sometimes... and misrepesented isnt a bad thing all the time? remember my 1882 halfcrown listed as 1898 i got for only a few quid ?

dont go ebay until you have at least a basic knowledge of grading and identification, and of course ebay is a great place for decent bulk buys, even with postage buying a mixed lot of 200 coins you can get them for stupid prices like 5-10p a coin (trust me there is always nearly something in there worthwhile of the purchase ), there are bargains to be had on ebay, i have got many a bargain.

DO lookup dealers near you, they usualy have a good mix of anything and everything, bargain buckets (sometimes a bargain in those too )

[scottishmoney 18]

I look at eBay occasionally, but admittedly it has been almost a year since I bought anything.

[Peter 615]

Ebay is a brilliant market place for coins.

Set your limit and go for it.

Where else can you view the nr of coins 24/7

Some of the dealers on Ebay sell at coin fairs so as long as the picture is undoctored

I don't have a problem

Everyone seems willing to slate Ebay.

I can rember coin lists being posted to me and no photographs and relying on the dealers grades of which I wasn't always happy

[Peckris 579]

Ebay is a brilliant market place for coins.

Set your limit and go for it.

Where else can you view the nr of coins 24/7

Some of the dealers on Ebay sell at coin fairs so as long as the picture is undoctored

I don't have a problem

Everyone seems willing to slate Ebay.

I can rember coin lists being posted to me and no photographs and relying on the dealers grades of which I wasn't always happy

The reason I hate eBay is the sheer waste of time dredging through the dross to find decent coins. It doesn't help to sort by "opening bid", as quite a lot of the better items will start bidding at 99p, so knocking that strategy on the head.

If someone would come up with a surefire way of filtering out the crap, I'd have much more time for eBay, but when the crap is between 95-98%, well .... life's too short.

[Peter 615]

Ebay is a brilliant market place for coins.

Set your limit and go for it.

Where else can you view the nr of coins 24/7

Some of the dealers on Ebay sell at coin fairs so as long as the picture is undoctored

I don't have a problem

Everyone seems willing to slate Ebay.

I can rember coin lists being posted to me and no photographs and relying on the dealers grades of which I wasn't always happy

The reason I hate eBay is the sheer waste of time dredging through the dross to find decent coins. It doesn't help to sort by "opening bid", as quite a lot of the better items will start bidding at 99p, so knocking that strategy on the head.

If someone would come up with a surefire way of filtering out the crap, I'd have much more time for eBay, but when the crap is between 95-98%, well .... life's too short.

You can easily cherry pick dates and filter this again into denomination.

I accept there is a lot of rubbish on Ebay but I've still picked up some top stuff.....Don't be afraid to offer against some of the dealers listings....some dealers BIN are way too high but a crafty offer and a compromise can often be achieved.

[Rob 3,002]

If there was some way of ensuring all the copies went into a replica folder, that would reduce the number by at least 10% overall and more for the older categories such as hammered and early milled.

Like Peckris, I simply can't find the enthusiasm to trawl through the pages of crap.

It is possible to use mental filters as well because although many listings are textbook examples of illiteracy, the ability to copy and paste means you can frequently identify a known purveyor of crap by the spelling mistakes in the title and say the background colour characteristics of the thumbnail. Others may simply list all coins in the hammered section or wherever. There are plenty of ways to identify certain sellers without viewing the listing, but whether this compensates for the vast numbers you can't readily identify is a moot point. There are additional pointers that can be used to identify rubbish such as the regular use of inappropriate words.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Rob

[choolie 0]

Thanks for all your input, I am grateful for that. But after going to the coin fair on saturday, I would still like to learn of a dealer who sells at the catalogue prices. Any Ideas anyone?

[Peckris 579]

Thanks for all your input, I am grateful for that. But after going to the coin fair on saturday, I would still like to learn of a dealer who sells at the catalogue prices. Any Ideas anyone?

If you went to a coin fair, surely most of the dealers were selling at or below catalogue?

The other thing to bear in mind is, catalogues are not bibles! Any coin is worth precisely what someone is prepared to pay for it, whatever the book says. Some coins dealers couldn't shift at book in a thousand years, others will be snapped up as soon as they appear, often at over book. It's only a rough rule of thumb. And one that, even so, very quickly goes out of date.

[choolie 0]

Thanks for all your input, I am grateful for that. But after going to the coin fair on saturday, I would still like to learn of a dealer who sells at the catalogue prices. Any Ideas anyone?

If you went to a coin fair, surely most of the dealers were selling at or below catalogue?

The other thing to bear in mind is, catalogues are not bibles! Any coin is worth precisely what someone is prepared to pay for it, whatever the book says. Some coins dealers couldn't shift at book in a thousand years, others will be snapped up as soon as they appear, often at over book. It's only a rough rule of thumb. And one that, even so, very quickly goes out of date.

Well to be fair to the fair I did get there about an hour before it was due to end so I probably missed some of the best bargains. I also did not feel comfortable enough to check everyones prices against the book in front of them. The one coin I did buy I was very happy with, for £48 a VF 1758 shilling is listed in spink as £45 so that is not bad.

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

Very difficult to pick up the pace of this when you first enter the hobby.

Yes, each year there are several price guides issued. There's a load of blurb that say's the prices have been aggregated from auctions, dealers lists etc etc.

Funny thing is, they never seem to go down.

We all when we start, meekly pay full list for something we're not even sure we want.

The penny really drops when you try and sell something back to a dealer.

This is when everything becomes clearer.

You'll be lucky to get 50% of list in a lot of cases.

Er, but.....

Take it or leave it mate.

As has been said, it's worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. Forget the list price.

Sharpen that tongue and get stuck in Sir

[Gary D 76]

Very difficult to pick up the pace of this when you first enter the hobby.

Yes, each year there are several price guides issued. There's a load of blurb that say's the prices have been aggregated from auctions, dealers lists etc etc.

Funny thing is, they never seem to go down.

We all when we start, meekly pay full list for something we're not even sure we want.

The penny really drops when you try and sell something back to a dealer.

This is when everything becomes clearer.

You'll be lucky to get 50% of list in a lot of cases.

Er, but.....

Take it or leave it mate.

As has been said, it's worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. Forget the list price.

Sharpen that tongue and get stuck in Sir

And always haggle. Your opening line should always be" what will you take for this" I recently got £50 off a BU coin recently. The hardest bit was not to hop up and down infront of the dealer as I was knocking him down on a very rare varity which he was obviously unaware of.

[Red Riley 2]

Another point worth noting is that the perfect 'EF', 'VF' 'F' etc. doesn't exist. You could quite easily have gone to a dealer to buy that 1758 shilling and found he had three, all VF and all at different prices. There are so many variables to take into account in addition to what I would call the micro-grade (i.e. if all the VF 1758 shillings in the world were laid end to end, between which two coins would it fit?). There is also the attractiveness of the tone, does it have any damage, however slight? Is it well-struck, are any letters weak? I could go on, but you get my drift.

Price guides are simply that - guides, not bibles and an experienced collector can often work out whether the compiler was being cautious or anticipating a price rise that didn't materialise etc. All this comes with experience, which can actually be fun to acquire. I wish you luck.

[choolie 0]

Thanks again I appreciate all the input. That coin I bought was initially on display at £56 so you are spot on. I have another issue, I had bought a couple of coins of John welsh who advertises in coin news. Having thoroughly checked his prices seemed the most reasonable. Has anyone dealt with him? is he an accurate grader? I have become a little worried since I came accross this:

at

http://www.goldsovereigns.co.uk/1821sovereign.html

"Differential Grading

As you can see, the 1821 sovereign we show in our photographs is a very nice coin. Even though we are professional dealers and not collectors, we get a tremendous amount of pleasure when we get to see, handle, own, buy and sell particularly attractive coins. It's sometimes called job satisfaction. There's also another bonus, we get to take photographs of these coins, and add the photographs to our collection; that way, even when we have sold the coins, we still get to keep the pictures! The third photo is of the coin in the holder which its recent owner made for it, and shows brief notes about the coin. These are quite revealing. They include:

Grade; Gem BU . FDC by J. Welsh, Jan 1991.

We assume the grader has followed normal convention by showing the obverse grade followed by the reverse grade.

We have graded the coin as "About Uncirculated".

The obverse has a few scuffs and bagmarks, which are all quite normal and acceptable. Circulation coins, which the Americans would call a "business strike", and handled in bulk at the Mint, and at banks, before they get seen by any potential collector or dealer. There is a noticeable scratch on the neck, and a few small edge knocks. There is also some purplish toning. The high points of the design have all got slight polishing or wear, so if we were being ultra strict, we might have to grade the obverse as only EF (Extremely Fine). To grade this as Uncirculated is therefore an exaggeration, to call it Gem BU is even more of one, firstly because "Gem" suggests "better than", whereas it is in reality "not quite", and the "B" stands for Brilliant (or Bright), whereas the coin is actually toned, which in itself is quite unusual for a gold coin such as a sovereign, and being composed of high carat (22) gold.

We graded the reverse at the same grade as the obverse. John Welsh's grading states it to be FDC, which we understand to mean absolutely perfect, making this even more of an exaggeration than his obverse grading."

[Peckris 579]

Thanks again I appreciate all the input. That coin I bought was initially on display at £56 so you are spot on. I have another issue, I had bought a couple of coins of John welsh who advertises in coin news. Having thoroughly checked his prices seemed the most reasonable. Has anyone dealt with him? is he an accurate grader?

Oh dear, I don't want to be prosecuted for libel, nor get Chris into trouble. All I will do is to relay my own experience. I bought three coins from that said dealer on separate occasions in the 1990s. One was a 1797 twopence described as GVF, another an 1854 penny AUnc, and a 1932 halfcrown, supposedly BU. In my opinion (note that please if you're reading this Mr Welsh) each coin was over-described by at least one grade. The prices for each coin were what drew me to make a purchase.

To be perfectly fair : the prices were not really too high for the coins in question - I had responded to what looked like genuine bargains. And to be equally fair, my money was refunded in full without question when I sent the coins back. However, it did appear that over-grading was a 'hook' to lure potential buyers. And that's all I'm going to say.

[scott 129]

yes do watch for over grading, try and look up examples of grades, then use key points to help you, plenty of places to look on each coin for key grading areas.

but its all down to oppion, i dont really care for UNC or BU.. to me its the same thing.. toning is just an aging thing, and is sometimes very attractive.

[choolie 0]

Thanks again. I have now come to the conclusion that this very website seems a good place to buy coins online with accurate grading and appropriate prices. There is also the link to online coins, presumably these dealers are also reliable? Does anybody use them? I notice a lot of them seem to operate from abroad, you would think that they would not be the best place to buy with the weak £. But they seem cheaper than the English Dealers.

Also does anyone know if there is a specific day when either of the websites mentioned update with new coins or do you just have to keep checking?

[Peckris 579]

Thanks again. I have now come to the conclusion that this very website seems a good place to buy coins online with accurate grading and appropriate prices. There is also the link to online coins, presumably these dealers are also reliable? Does anybody use them? I notice a lot of them seem to operate from abroad, you would think that they would not be the best place to buy with the weak £. But they seem cheaper than the English Dealers.

Also does anyone know if there is a specific day when either of the websites mentioned update with new coins or do you just have to keep checking?

Interesting - I have generally found them rather expensive, looking at their prices? However, I believe they are reliable dealers (one of them is Rendel Ingram who also has his own mailing list and website). You probably have to keep checking, unlike Colin Cooke who update theirs once a month.

[Chris Perkins 223]

Thanks again. I have now come to the conclusion that this very website seems a good place to buy coins online with accurate grading and appropriate prices. There is also the link to online coins, presumably these dealers are also reliable? Does anybody use them? I notice a lot of them seem to operate from abroad, you would think that they would not be the best place to buy with the weak £. But they seem cheaper than the English Dealers.

Also does anyone know if there is a specific day when either of the websites mentioned update with new coins or do you just have to keep checking?

You won't have any problems with this very website! I am also mostly abroad (in Germany) but the exchange rate has no effect on coins because the vast majority I source from the UK. I buy them in GBP and sell them in GBP. Postage is also in some cases cheaper when I send things from here compared to within the UK. It's usually very quick and higher value items can also be properly insured.

[azda 973]

I agree with Chris about postage and insurance from Germany, and the post is much more efficent, although i disagree about sourcing, i think Germany can be cheaper for Gold as the Germans pay by weight and not what type Sovereign it is. I recently seen a 5 pound 1887 go for 700 euros, which is around the 660 pound mark, for a coin that weighs over an ounce i think was a bargain, wish i had the cash for it :-(