An opportunity to get a 1925 half crown

[Rob]

For all of you desperate to acquire the key date 1925 half crown, you could do worse than bid in the next Noble auction. Lots 1902-1919 contain a cumulative total in excess of 4000 of them. Rare - I think not . Ebay is likely to be full of them at some point unless they hopefully get melted down because most are not really collectable. link

Edited November 12, 2009 by Rob

[Peter]

Talk about flooding the market.

[scott]

lol i already have one, albeit in fair, that cost me a couple of quid.

[Flash]

I think this is a similar coin to the Heaton pennies in that it's scarcity was negated by people holding on to them. As an example I've currently around 150 1912H's in stock and about 10 1912's - only in fine though. What I would say however that it is scarce in anything better than fine. It might be just me but of the 0.5 Halfcrowns this one certainly seems to wear worse than the rest!

[scott]

1912 H has a few thousand more mintage then 1922, at 16.8million, so yes over rated but they do colour nice with wear

the 1925 halfcrown has a 1,413,461 which is acctually more then 1930.

[Peckris]

I think this is a similar coin to the Heaton pennies in that it's scarcity was negated by people holding on to them. As an example I've currently around 150 1912H's in stock and about 10 1912's - only in fine though. What I would say however that it is scarce in anything better than fine. It might be just me but of the 0.5 Halfcrowns this one certainly seems to wear worse than the rest!

I do so agree. Many of the so-called 'key dates' aren't rare at all, as they were all hoovered up between 1967 and 1971. They may be rare in the highest grades and always were, but in lower grades they are often more common than some quite 'ordinary' dates. I wish some enterprising group or individual would undertake a survey among dealers and collectors to establish the comparative rarity of predecimal dates.

[1949threepence]

I think this is a similar coin to the Heaton pennies in that it's scarcity was negated by people holding on to them. As an example I've currently around 150 1912H's in stock and about 10 1912's - only in fine though. What I would say however that it is scarce in anything better than fine. It might be just me but of the 0.5 Halfcrowns this one certainly seems to wear worse than the rest!

I do so agree. Many of the so-called 'key dates' aren't rare at all, as they were all hoovered up between 1967 and 1971. They may be rare in the highest grades and always were, but in lower grades they are often more common than some quite 'ordinary' dates. I wish some enterprising group or individual would undertake a survey among dealers and collectors to establish the comparative rarity of predecimal dates.

I've actually got an ordinary 1912 penny in GEF, which I bought from a stall on Chelmsford market in 1995 for just £2.50.

[scott]

yea can get decent common piences in decent grade, i got a VF 1919 for a quid, EF 1918 with some lustre for £5, while not rare, they are very desirable

and there is a list of these key dates on the site,

http://www.predecimal.com/key_dates.htm

how many of these are "rare" 1912H penny?

where is the 1979 narrow date and 1858 small date farthing.

i do think some coins are overrated

1988 pound anyone...

Edited November 13, 2009 by scott

[Peckris]

yea can get decent common piences in decent grade, i got a VF 1919 for a quid, EF 1918 with some lustre for £5, while not rare, they are very desirable

and there is a list of these key dates on the site,

http://www.predecimal.com/key_dates.htm

how many of these are "rare" 1912H penny?

where is the 1979 narrow date and 1858 small date farthing.

i do think some coins are overrated

1988 pound anyone...

Yes, but don't confuse "key" with "rare". 1912H is only key because it's a very popular coin, as it's the easiest of the three 20th Century Heatons by far, so lots of dealers stock it.

Some truly rare varieties aren't key at all, as many people aren't interested and don't collect them.

[scott]

true, but a noticable variety thats listed (1879 narrow date) is surely collectable, afterall if you saw one you would know straight away its differant, but TBH there is so little about some of these easy to spot ones i guess they aren't key.

as for this survay thing, i'll post about ideas on how to make at least a rough estimate on how it works

[Peckris]

true, but a noticable variety thats listed (1879 narrow date) is surely collectable, afterall if you saw one you would know straight away its differant, but TBH there is so little about some of these easy to spot ones i guess they aren't key.

as for this survay thing, i'll post about ideas on how to make at least a rough estimate on how it works

Yes, the rare narrow date buns should attract more interest because, as you say, they are easily spotted.

[VickySilver]

Noticeable, but do people truly care. This is just too much fussy detail to me - why don't we start counting the teeth number around the perimeter as well?

This is the type of mentality taken to its ridiculous limits by the famous "slender 3" bun.

Most definately, to each their own!

[scott]

course they would care, 1975, 79 have obvious wide and narrow dates and are really mot minor differances, hence the listings.

it gets dumb when you count boarder teeth and slight dye errors.

[VickySilver]

I was thinking of Gothic florins where arc numbers are counted, and even though I have an extensive collection have to confess to NEVER counting arc numbers. These are certainly more of a notable varietal (arc numbers) than wide or narrow space datals. I would say the equivalent to arc count with regards to date varieties would be large or small dates which, although not exciting, are certainly more noteworthy as it is not simple spacing of puncheons.

[Flash]

Totally with Vickysilver on this one. £23,000.00 was it for a coin which most would throw away but because the 3 was slightly different...Unbelievable. Personally I think the slender 3 was so rare because no one cares and perhaps 1% of the coin collecting population would even check for such a thing.

[scott]

i wouldn't know a slender 3 if i had one.. i'm not measuring things.. its a dumb price for a coin.

how come a slightly differant 3 is worth so much, yet there are date spreads all over the place in 60-61 and 62 which no one cares about

[davidrj]

i wouldn't know a slender 3 if i had one.. i'm not measuring things.. its a dumb price for a coin.

how come a slightly differant 3 is worth so much, yet there are date spreads all over the place in 60-61 and 62 which no one cares about

Likewise the open "3" 1903 penny gets noted, but the two quite distinct terminal "8"s for 1898 are ignored by most authors, I suspect rarity=investment rather than numismatic interest dictates price and catalogue inclusion

[Peckris]

Noticeable, but do people truly care. This is just too much fussy detail to me - why don't we start counting the teeth number around the perimeter as well?

This is the type of mentality taken to its ridiculous limits by the famous "slender 3" bun.

Most definately, to each their own!

No, I think you're on a loser here VickyS - the wide date / narrow date bun pennies are so obvious (not remotely like border teeth - we're talking huge difference in date spacing), that most people would / do notice them even if unaware of which are rare. These date spacings are far more noticeable than, say, the tide height on a 1902 or 1895, the single or double exergue line on a 1940, the two different 1953 obverses, and pretty much nearly every bun variety.

[VickySilver]

Possibly, however Peckris you did fail to counter my point about WHY this is a relatively insignificant rarity, at least technically.

[Red Riley]

As an erstwhile penny collector, perhaps the best thing I can do is simply to state what I have done. I have 120 bronze pennies, dates and varieties. That is all I want, the more esoteric varieties do not interest me. However, that 120 does include a narrow date 1879 and several other narrow date varieties. When I started collecting coins, I used the Coin Monthly year book as my bible - this publication included a random selection of varieties, such as '1860 LCW below foot', '1881 new portrait' etc. etc. but not narrow/wide dates, so initially I didn't collect them. My coin collecting activities then went into abeyance with family commitments etc. When I returned to the fold, the published variety pecking order had changed and narrow/wide dates were now accepted varieties, so I looked out for, and bought them.

I personally would regard the narrow/wide dates as 'key' varieties for the simple reason that they are collectable right the way down the grading scale, whereas the '1860 LCW under foot' has to be above VF for the distinction to become apparent. The crunch comes with 1874 where varieties fly in all diections, with 4 distinct (i.e. recognisable right down to 'poor') reverses and 2 all-grade obverses.

So perhaps that's my criteria, 'Is the variety recognisable in poor condition?' If so, collect it (in better than 'poor' obviously!).

The years where I have more than one variety are as follows:

1860 (2)

1861 (2)

1864 (2)

1865 (2)

1874 (8)

1875 (3)

1876 (2)

1879 (2)

1881 (3)

1895 (2)

1902 (2)

1912 (2)

1918 (3)

1919 (3)

1926 (2)

1940 (2)

Everybody will make up their own criteria, but that's mine - and I still don't have an '1860 LCW under foot'!

Edited November 17, 2009 by Red Riley

[scott]

i have the ones in my penny thread,

now if we are talking about something that makes no differance, this is a good example

are there really many bun head pennys distinguishable in poor?, i have 2 veriaties of 1860 in poor only way i know they are differant is one has signiture under portrait

[Red Riley]

You would be able to tell narrow/wide date, Heaton mint, 1860, 1874 or 1881 portrait, flat/convex shield; you may even be able to tell 1865 5 over 3. I am surprised that you can see the signature under a portrait in poor condition, but will take your word for it!

Edited November 17, 2009 by Red Riley

[1949threepence]

As an erstwhile penny collector, perhaps the best thing I can do is simply to state what I have done. I have 120 bronze pennies, dates and varieties. That is all I want, the more esoteric varieties do not interest me. However, that 120 does include a narrow date 1879 and several other narrow date varieties. When I started collecting coins, I used the Coin Monthly year book as my bible - this publication included a random selection of varieties, such as '1860 LCW below foot', '1881 new portrait' etc. etc. but not narrow/wide dates, so initially I didn't collect them. My coin collecting activities then went into abeyance with family commitments etc. When I returned to the fold, the published variety pecking order had changed and narrow/wide dates were now accepted varieties, so I looked out for, and bought them.

I personally would regard the narrow/wide dates as 'key' varieties for the simple reason that they are collectable right the way down the grading scale, whereas the '1860 LCW under foot' has to be above VF for the distinction to become apparent. The crunch comes with 1874 where varieties fly in all diections, with 4 distinct (i.e. recognisable right down to 'poor') reverses and 2 all-grade obverses.

So perhaps that's my criteria, 'Is the variety recognisable in poor condition?' If so, collect it (in better than 'poor' obviously!).

The years where I have more than one variety are as follows:

1860 (2)

1861 (2)

1864 (2)

1865 (2)

1874 (8)

1875 (3)

1876 (2)

1879 (2)

1881 (3)

1895 (2)

1902 (2)

1912 (2)

1918 (3)

1919 (3)

1926 (2)

1940 (2)

Everybody will make up their own criteria, but that's mine - and I still don't have an '1860 LCW under foot'!

I tend to agree with your collecting criteria, Red. I have got all the pennies from 1902 onwards, including the obvious variants such as 1926ME, 1918/19H & KN etc'. But I tend to concentrate on quality, rather than variety, and will shortly make a start my bun penny collection ~ a very long, arduous and expensive roads to be sure. I'm relishing the prospect

I also follow the varieties that are listed in Spink et al. Oddly enough my coin yearbook, lists such exotic varieties as 1862, 8 over 6, 1864 plain 4 and crosslet 4, 1882, no H. But it does not list 1879 narrow date ~ I agree with Peckris on this. It is a very obvious variety, and hits you in the eye, even on worn examples.

[scott]

yea i'll get the pic,

came in a bulk buy, you can see 3 lumps in the 5 o clock, thats the signiture

[Peckris]

I tend to agree with your collecting criteria, Red. I have got all the pennies from 1902 onwards, including the obvious variants such as 1926ME, 1918/19H & KN etc'. But I tend to concentrate on quality, rather than variety, and will shortly make a start my bun penny collection ~ a very long, arduous and expensive roads to be sure. I'm relishing the prospect

I also follow the varieties that are listed in Spink et al. Oddly enough my coin yearbook, lists such exotic varieties as 1862, 8 over 6, 1864 plain 4 and crosslet 4, 1882, no H. But it does not list 1879 narrow date ~ I agree with Peckris on this. It is a very obvious variety, and hits you in the eye, even on worn examples.

Very good luck with the bun journey 1949! I have few of the rare varieties, if any, - not even an 1865/3 (I'd like one in VF at a reasonable price but they don't come up too often). If you're after quality first and foremost, then I would begin the hunt starting from 1883 - 1894, where you can get specimens in EF or better at very reasonable prices. Also, 1860 - 1863 are fairly easy too in good grades as long as you don't go for the rarer varieties.