Plugged coins

[TJ91]

Hi all!

 

I’ve been collecting on and off for a few years but only recently decided to try and take it up seriously.

Came across this Henry VII plugged groat at a fair which after some deliberation I decided to buy as apart from the plug I thought was a really nice example but just wondering what people’s views are on plugged coins generally - do other collectors avoid them altogether and do they hold any value? I thought the price was reasonable given the plug but wonder what others views are.

Would others buy a plugged coin to fill a gap or go for a lower grade, non-damaged, coin instead? 

Thanks!

[Paddy]

I guess most "serious" collectors would avoid plugged coins, or any other damage. But if that is the only way you can fill a gap within budget, then go for it! 

I have a number of damaged coins in my collection - some with engravings in the field, some ex-mount, some hammered even missing fragments, but they will fill the gaps until and unless I can afford to replace them with something better.

Here, for example, is my William I penny. I would love to have one without the missing chunk, but until one comes along at a price I am happy with, it will stay with me.

Your Henry VII, by the way, is a lovely example apart from the plug.

[Citizen H]

similar as Paddy I have coins that have holes in them and counter stamped. I have others that have been engraved as love tokens, nice enough in there own right.   👍

[Paddy]

I think all these alterations add to the history. A plug means someone thought it interesting enough to use as a medallion or touch piece, then someone later felt it was interesting enough to repair. Engravings are often love tokens or claims to ownership. A split or fragment means it has been in the ground for some time.

I think that is why I find perfect proof coins a bit dull.

 

[Coinery]

My first thought, regardless of whether I can ‘do’ a plugged coin or not, was whether it was genuine? A lot of fake coins are scuffed up to look old, and the scratches in this piece look so intentional and even, on a coin I would’ve expected to be buckled (or wavy at best) from such a harsh life, yet it has such a perfect and even wear to the raised surfaces?

Here’s an example of some of the copies out there for these groats? I’m not claiming yours is counterfeit, just saying this one pricks my suspicion enough that I wouldn’t personally want to buy such an example blind!

There’s a really good Elizabeth I fake shilling out there, that was even cast with a plug in place. Either they hadn’t noticed the original coin was plugged, or they thought it might avoid the scrutiny of serious collectors, on account of the market they are typically absorbed by? Who knows?

 

[Chris Perkins]

26 minutes ago, Coinery said:

My first thought, regardless of whether I can ‘do’ a plugged coin or not, was whether it was genuine?

That was actually my first thought when I saw it, too! But mainly due to the edge almost looking in places as if it were 2 pieces bonded together, à la an electrotype. But I'm not a hammered expert by any means and I'm sure there are other factors that can cause a pic to come across that way, so I kept my mouth shut.

[TJ91]

Interesting - must admit that I hadn’t even considered whether it could be fake as there was nothing (in my limited experience) to suggest that it was. Given that I bought it from a dealer at a coin fair (rather than online) and it was presented as genuine, one would reasonably expect (?) the dealer to either know a fake and if so certainly not pass one off as genuine!?

The matter of it being plugged becomes irrelevant if the coin itself could be fake so I suppose I now need to establish whether it is in fact genuine. Thanks all for your feedback!

[Coinery]

As Chris said, photos can make things look an unusual way and, as I said, I’d really want to see the physical coin if I were buying, ‘and I’m not claiming yours is counterfeit,’ but an interesting piece for sure. 
 

I think that’s sorted any libels out! 😉

 

Seriously, if you bought this from a reputable dealer in a fair, it wouldn’t matter even if it were genuine…if you had second thought about a coin, for any reason - as long as the coin was EXACTLY as it was when you took it away - they wouldn’t blink an eye to receive it back, knowing you’d be coming back to them, time and time again. Let us know how you get on.

[Ukstu]

I don't tend to buy them now but when i first started collecting i bought holed / plugged coins. 

I have a milled sixpence of Elizabeth I that would of been way out my budget at the time if it wasn't for the plug in it.

Don't mind counterstamped stuff so much as it's an interesting field that you can research sometimes. 

I picked up a cartwheel penny last year that had an edge engraving in the same style as the waterloo medal. When i researched the name on it i found out the guy had actually been at Waterloo. I only paid £10 for it as well so wasn't expensive. 

 

[Coinery]

12 minutes ago, Ukstu said:

I don't tend to buy them now but when i first started collecting i bought holed / plugged coins. 

I have a milled sixpence of Elizabeth I that would of been way out my budget at the time if it wasn't for the plug in it.

Don't mind counterstamped stuff so much as it's an interesting field that you can research sometimes. 

I picked up a cartwheel penny last year that had an edge engraving in the same style as the waterloo medal. When i researched the name on it i found out the guy had actually been at Waterloo. I only paid £10 for it as well so wasn't expensive. 

 

Now that’s what it’s all about, capturing historical moments in time.
Similar to when we talked on here recently about whether a particular coin could be proven to have passed through the hand of Queen Elizabeth I herself, things like that, what an exciting thought. Or a bullet hole through a signpost in Somerset where a dog fight between a spitfire and a German light bomber occurred.

Love history!

[pokal02]

I'll also take plugged/edge loss etc hammered coins, especially if it makes them affordable (eg my Richard III in the name of Edward IV/V groat), I try to avoid actual holes and coins that have been broken and repaired unless extremely difficult to get otherwise (eg my Matilda 1d).  I woudn't take a milled coin with any of these defects, although I've got a couple that have been cleaned/polished.