Holed but very rare silling

[Doctor]

Hi everyone. Can you please advise approximate realistic price for this coin?

Charles I Exeter shilling. Spink indicates it as "rare", 3085, "16 rose 44" variaty.

One without hole was sold for more than 7k somewhere. But again, without hole

[Doctor]

[Doctor]

[Sword]

It is a difficult question to answer to answer as there is no market price for a holed coin. In my opinion, it is worth whatever someone is prepared to pay for it on e.g. eBay.

A lower grade example (without hole) was sold by Noonans in 2020 for £750 hammer. https://www.noonans.co.uk/auctions/archive/lot-archive/results/370743/?keywords=1644+shilling+exeter&discipline=&category=&date_on=&date_start=&date_end=&lot_no=

I personally would always choose a lower grade or more common variety than a seriously damaged rare variety.

 

Edited November 1, 2024 by Sword
wrong link

[Coinery]

Yes I agree with the above, very difficult to price a holed coin, near impossible I’d say? Speaking for myself, I don’t think I’d even gap-fill with a holed coin…I don’t think?

Instead I’ve simply come to accept the fact I’m never going to complete ANY series. Sad but true!

[Doctor]

Fully agree with both of you - holed coin is a holed coin and never be the collections gem. Bought it long time ago, at very begining of my "shillings" carrier

The coin sold by noonan seems to be different one, not my variaty - "16 rose 44".

I will be in the UK in Dec, would you think beneficial if I bring this coin to any dealer 8n London? Baldwin? Or GoldCoinExchange? Or smth else?

[Sword]

I think the coin in the link is "16 rose 44". 16 followed by mintmark rose followed by 44 (rather than 1644 on left of mm.). I did post the wrong link initially but have corrected a few minutes afterward initial posting. 

[Doctor]

25 minutes ago, Sword said:

I think the coin in the link is "16 rose 44". 16 followed by mintmark rose followed by 44 (rather than 1644 on left of mm.). I did post the wrong link initially but have corrected a few minutes afterward initial posting. 

Got it now, thanks

[Sword]

21 hours ago, Doctor said:

I will be in the UK in Dec, would you think beneficial if I bring this coin to any dealer 8n London? Baldwin? Or GoldCoinExchange? Or smth else?

I don't think it's worth the effort as your guess is as good as anyone else's. Guesses from dealers are fairly meaningless and might not be what you wanted to hear. No one can know how much it will sell on say eBay until it is actually sold on eBay again.

[Ukstu]

Agree with other poster's. It's difficult to price holed coins they don't appeal to everyone either. I have a few holed coins that I regret buying in my early day's of collecting. I'll probably put them on eBay in the future and see where the bidding goes but i expect to be disappointed. I definitely overpaid for one of them. 

[Doctor]

Same story. Overpaid, then regret. Lack of knowledge and experience in my early days. 

[Ukstu]

2 hours ago, Doctor said:

Same story. Overpaid, then regret. Lack of knowledge and experience in my early days. 

Same lol. Mine was a York shilling of Charles I that I feel I overpaid on. I also have a milled Elizabeth sixpence that has a very small filled hole in it but i got that for a reasonable price at the time. The other two are a Gun money sixpence & a commonwealth penny but both them were under £10 if my memory is correct. 

[Coinery]

Ahh, now collecting and ‘connecting’ with a holed piece is altogether a different animal…I’ve worn an Elizabeth sixpence on a leather necklace for over 30 years now, and will likely die with one, given my lifestyle.

I’ve never purposely drilled one, but have lost two now, that I hope will one day hang with historic pride around someone else’s neck! Who knows, it could easily be another 500 years before my last necklace gets found…amazing…and I hope so 🙏

[Ukstu]

1 hour ago, TomGoodheart said:

Have to admit, I've deliberately bought a couple of holed coins. One because it was officially holed during the Great Recoinage of 1696.

The other is this. Again, it's the hole that makes it of interest to me. Horses for courses, I guess! 😄

Beautiful piece. Touchpieces are definitely holed coins worth owning. 

[Sword]

I think collecting coins appeals to people who appreciate:

1) history, 2) beauty , 3) intrinsic rarity , 4) condition rarity , 5) investment potential

I know I am generalising when I say the type of coins we collect depends on which factor(s) matter to us most. A few rate history and intrinsic rarity beyond all else and are happy to collect washers. Intrinsic rarity is prized much more highly by bronze collectors and you have many people paying thousands for a "rare variety" penny in terrible condition. I would never do such a thing as I don't value intrinsic rarity so highly (and I view all hammered coins are unique). For me, I value factors 1), 2) and 4). If I ever buy a holed coin, it's for the history (and what's left of beauty) and will use my "fun" budget rather than "coin" budget. 

 

[Paddy]

Good analysis @Sword. For me Factor 1 is the most important, with factor 2 next. After that, the other three are interesting but would not entice me to spend big bucks.

 

[TomGoodheart]

Eye appeal is certainly important to me. I also like pieces that had some significance to the person that owned them, like Coinery's sixpences.

My collection roughly splits into coins (for which beauty, conditional rarity and to a certain extent provenance all come into play) and medallions, where all of the previous are considerations, but I also like that their importance to their original owners was to demonstrate loyalty to the Crown, as well as for adornment.

[Doctor]

Great summary @Sword, thanks.

I would also add something like sentimental value, if I may. When the coin is not that attractive for others but you still want to have and keep it. Sounds a bit irrational especially from investment perspective but after all collecting the pieces of copper or silver is not fully rational also.

[Doctor]

For me the importance of all 5 mentioned components is going on order listed in the post. History first, then beauty etc. 

I must admit that the liquidity of collectible material has become more important to me lately given the general instability in the world

[Ukstu]

My shilling. I think what drew me to it at the time was the portrait. It got over shadowed when I eventually bought a Milled Briot Sixpence.

[Coinery]

This post has unfolded quite unexpectedly, really nice when that happens.

I’m definitely 1 & 2…primarily 1 & 2…but knowledge and the vanity that accompanies it, sometimes gets me a little excited by 3, in the hope I may one day achieve 5, as I endlessly haemorrhage in pursuit of this staggering beautiful and fascinating pastime!

[Sword]

22 hours ago, Doctor said:

Great summary @Sword, thanks.

I would also add something like sentimental value, if I may. When the coin is not that attractive for others but you still want to have and keep it. Sounds a bit irrational especially from investment perspective but after all collecting the pieces of copper or silver is not fully rational also.

Nearly all coin collectors are sentimental and prefer to collect coins from their own countries. For example, an English collector might pay 2K for an early milled crown but would just say "meh" to a continental taler of the same age and condition. 

With regard to your shilling, I imagine it does have sentimental value given it is one of the first coins you brought. My suggestion is that if you still like it and want to keep it, then don't worry about how much it is worth or whether you will get your money back. Just enjoy owning the piece and it is a rare variety after all. But if you don't get pleasure from looking at it, then sell it on eBay and get what you can. You won't think about it anymore once it is gone. We all (hopefully) make money on some purchases and lose money on others. They do kind of cancel out in the end.

[Sword]

14 hours ago, Coinery said:

This post has unfolded quite unexpectedly, really nice when that happens.

I’m definitely 1 & 2…primarily 1 & 2…but knowledge and the vanity that accompanies it, sometimes gets me a little excited by 3, in the hope I may one day achieve 5, as I endlessly haemorrhage in pursuit of this staggering beautiful and fascinating pastime!

I doubt I will ever achieve 5. But it is a hobby for me and I know better not to devote "serious" money to it given my limited knowledge. But judging how high inflation has been in the last few years, I might not have done too badly with coins compared to savings in the bank.

[Doctor]

2 minutes ago, Sword said:

Nearly all coin collectors are sentimental and prefer to collect coins from their own countries. For example, an English collector might pay 2K for an early milled crown but would just say "meh" to a continental taler of the same age and condition. 

With regard to your shilling, I imagine it does have sentimental value given it is one of the first coins you brought. My suggestion is that if you still like it and want to keep it, then don't worry about how much it is worth or whether you will get your money back. Just enjoy owning the piece and it is a rare variety after all. But if you don't get pleasure from looking at it, then sell it on eBay and get what you can. You won't think about it anymore once it is gone. We all (hopefully) make money on some purchases and lose money on others. They do kind of cancel out in the end.

Thank you for this.

You are right, it was not the first hammered coin but one of them. And yes it still gives me a pleasure. The reason why I start thinking about potential selling is other coins in my collection. Most of them are quite good (not ideal vut works for me) and holed one attract immediate attention. Anyway, thank for your thoughts, it helped me a lot, I am going to keep this coin with me. At least as a reminder about purchase lessons learned.

And I am not living in the UK, English is not even second language for me (between third and fourth) so please apologize poor grammar and style. 

British coins for me is the most attractive collection items. Strong coinage system, perfect catalogisation, and after all beautiful design - no choice, have to collect.

[pokal02]

For me it's 1 & 3, then 2 then 4.  I do try to avoid holed coins (although I've got a couple that have been neatly plugged).  I'll accept chipped coins if a full round coin would be very difficult to get /expensive. 

If you collect, say, pennies. and have a spare £1000 or so, would you rather have (A) an 1860 (copper) in Fine, or (B) an 1831 (currency) in BU?  I'm firmly for (A), but suspect I'm in the minority,   (My valuations might be a bit out as I haven't collected 1d's for many yers).