Had a field day on e bay......

[Peckris 2]

3 minutes ago, terrysoldpennies said:

Because of a change in the metal content mixtures due to the War .  Page 63 The Bronze Coinage of Great Britain .  Freeman   

That makes sense. Halfpennies from the early 1940s wear to a lighter and redder colour than previous.

[1949threepence]

10 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

That makes sense. Halfpennies from the early 1940s wear to a lighter and redder colour than previous.

With regard to the '44 to' 46 pennies, it's amazing that a 2.5% reduction in tin can make that much difference to outward appearance when toning.   

[PWA 1967]

I think i may of asked on here before and also asked a few dealers without any definate answer.

Does anyone know why the 1934 were mint toned please ?

!944-46 i have read before about the metal mix although 1934 i have been given a few different ideas but nothing that someone was sure about.

As an afterthought i will phone the Royal Mint and see if they can give me an answer 🙂

Edited April 24, 2019 by PWA 1967

[terrysoldpennies]

10 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

I think i may of asked on here before and also asked a few dealers without any definate answer.

Does anyone know why the 1934 were mint toned please ?

!944-46 i have read before about the metal mix although 1934 i have been given a few different ideas but nothing that someone was sure about.

As an afterthought i will phone the Royal Mint and see if they can give me an answer 🙂

An interesting point Pete . The only thing that comes to mind is that this was at the height of the great depression, and that maybe they were experimenting with different alloys or darkening processes so as to save money on the more expensive metals, the half penny was still being produced in the bright finish as normal.

[PWA 1967]

14 minutes ago, terrysoldpennies said:

An interesting point Pete . The only thing that comes to mind is that this was at the height of the great depression, and that maybe they were experimenting with different alloys or darkening processes so as to save money on the more expensive metals, the half penny was still being produced in the bright finish as normal.

I have phoned earlier Terry.....They have helped me before a couple of years ago ,although he wanted to confirm with someone else who wasnt available and to see if anything is recorded.

.One of the reasons i have been given previously is due to there not being any going into circulation the year before ,they did not want pennies to be hoarded or given at Christmas to kids which apparently was common then.If that was one of the reasons it definately worked as 1934 pennies in Mint state are extremely hard to find as you know.

All the other bronze wasnt treated ,maybe kids would of been negged out with a farthing for christmas so didnt think it was worth it 

[PWA 1967]

On 4/24/2019 at 7:26 AM, 1949threepence said:

Pete - I had an e mail from Dave Craddock saying that it wasn't a single exergue line penny, and that there may have been some mix up. Never mind - one of those things.

At least I do now have one, albeit only GF. But no other issues, so it will do very nicely.

I know your not bothered Mike but have just been talking to Dave about something else and mentioned the 1940.

The one i sent he sold on his list straight away but thought he had another ,although when he took the coin out of a flip it wasnt one.

I was sure the one i sent him was ok 🙂

[1949threepence]

21 minutes ago, PWA 1967 said:

I know your not bothered Mike but have just been talking to Dave about something else and mentioned the 1940.

The one i sent he sold on his list straight away but thought he had another ,although when he took the coin out of a flip it wasnt one.

I was sure the one i sent him was ok 🙂

It's not a problem Pete. Mistakes happen and I do have one which I'd already ordered. 

I'm sure an UNC specimen will present itself in due course. 

 

 

[mrbadexample]

Dear Peter

 

I am writing to you in response to your enquiry of 25 April.

 

The Deputy Master of the Royal Mint wrote the following in his Annual Report of 1934 about the darkening of pennies:

 

“In my Report for 1933 I drew attention to the fact that no bronze pennies were required to be struck for circulation in that year.  Large stocks of this denomination were held by the Banks and, in accordance with the usual policy of this Department, the issue of pence had from October, 1932, been suspended in this country.  In the autumn of 1934, however, it became evident that the stocks had to a large extent been absorbed.  I, therefore, invited representatives of the Banks to meet me in order to discuss this position.  As a result of our deliberations it was generally agreed that the ban on the issue of new pennies from the Mint should be to some extent relaxed.  There was, however, some anxiety displayed that the issues should not be too lavish, especially in meeting the constant demand for bright new pennies, so much desired for the Christmas Stocking, a demand which is spurious to the extent that it is followed, as it often is, by inconvenience to the Banks when the young recipients disgorge their treasures in exchange for other delights which subsequently appeal still more to their taste.  Last Christmas, therefore, I felt compelled to meet these views of the Bankers and arranged that all new pence, for the time being, should be issued only after their attractive sheen had first been removed.  I am glad to be able to report that, in view of the clear evidence we now have of a very large increase in the genuine demand for pennies this year, the precaution has not proved necessary.”

 

I hope this answers your question.

 

Best wishes

[PWA 1967]

That is all they could really go off and confirm ,thanks Jon.

It also makes me feel that the Hypo was put on after the coin was srtuck.

Edited April 29, 2019 by PWA 1967

[Peckris 2]

5 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

That is all they could really go off and confirm ,thanks Jon.

It also makes me feel that the Hypo was put on after the coin was srtuck.

Agreed - there are traces of lustre in the odd place on my 1940 penny. You sometimes see this on the other dates too.

[Sleepy]

What a bunch of Christmas hilljoys!!

 

[Rob]

13 minutes ago, Sleepy said:

What a bunch of Christmas hilljoys!!

What?! Elucidate please.

[Sleepy]

killjoys, not sure where that came from, I'm sure they don't have auto correct on the forum??

[Peckris 2]

9 hours ago, Sleepy said:

killjoys, not sure where that came from, I'm sure they don't have auto correct on the forum??

Not sure why you call them killjoys when the end result is a coin that stands out for collectors as different from the others in that series... 

[1949threepence]

9 hours ago, Sleepy said:

killjoys, not sure where that came from, I'm sure they don't have auto correct on the forum??

Well H and K are close to each other on the keyboard, so maybe you I advertently pressed the wrong one. It happens. 

[terrysoldpennies]

On ‎4‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 6:14 PM, Peckris 2 said:

Yes, I've certainly heard of 1944 undarkened, but they're very scarce.

1946 come in both flavours, but the mint darkened type I would say is more common.

Here's an interesting one - a 1940 penny that appears to have been darkened, which is unheard of in my experience.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1940-George-VI-Penny-Bronze-Coins-KM-Coins/173869777932?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D57477%26meid%3Db06794f45fd54bc19020d9507f8e7f09%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D192893122637%26itm%3D173869777932&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

I've just taken a punt on it (made an offer which was accepted) - I'll see in hand if it actually is Mint toned. If not, I'll have a standard 1940 penny to sell. 

I received this in the post this morning. I bought it because I thought it to be a 1944 bright finish with the wide date and recut waves. I waited for it to come in so as to be sure, and it does appear to be the bright finish type.  Does anyone know if all of the wide date type were bright finished or were most darkened as with the standard date width type. 

 

[PWA 1967]

I think its just coincidence that yours (if the finish is correct ) and the crocker one / Richards described in the auction as a bright finish are both wide dates and just random and not intentional.

I have had and seen quite a lot of the wider ones that were all MT from memory 🙂

The wider one though regardless of colour is much scarcer IMO

[terrysoldpennies]

29 minutes ago, PWA 1967 said:

I think its just coincidence that yours (if the finish is correct ) and the crocker one / Richards described in the auction as a bright finish are both wide dates and just random and not intentional.

I have had and seen quite a lot of the wider ones that were all MT from memory 🙂

The wider one though regardless of colour is much scarcer IMO

I read somewhere on the forum that there is a ratio of about 6 to 1 so very scarce in high grade.   

[1949threepence]

On 4/20/2019 at 6:14 PM, Peckris 2 said:

Yes, I've certainly heard of 1944 undarkened, but they're very scarce.

1946 come in both flavours, but the mint darkened type I would say is more common.

Here's an interesting one - a 1940 penny that appears to have been darkened, which is unheard of in my experience.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1940-George-VI-Penny-Bronze-Coins-KM-Coins/173869777932?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D57477%26meid%3Db06794f45fd54bc19020d9507f8e7f09%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D192893122637%26itm%3D173869777932&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

I've just taken a punt on it (made an offer which was accepted) - I'll see in hand if it actually is Mint toned. If not, I'll have a standard 1940 penny to sell. 

I'm wondering if this is one:-  

 

[PWA 1967]

It looks cleaned to me but is a 4 to centre of wave over tooth.

[1949threepence]

15 minutes ago, PWA 1967 said:

It looks cleaned to me but is a 4 to centre of wave over tooth.

As the base of the 4 is broader than the tooth, you could look at it either way - over a tooth, or over a gap between teeth.

What's the significance of that anyway?

 

[PWA 1967]

4 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

As the base of the 4 is broader than the tooth, you could look at it either way - over a tooth, or over a gap between teeth.

What's the significance of that anyway?

 

http://www.michael-coins.co.uk/bp_1944_varieties.htm

There is know significance ,just another variety and yes can be called what you like 

[1949threepence]

10 minutes ago, PWA 1967 said:

http://www.michael-coins.co.uk/bp_1944_varieties.htm

There is know significance ,just another variety and yes can be called what you like 

Right..........

...........So anyway thanks for the very useful link. For me the relevant bit was this:-

1944 to 1946 - Officially dark toned by 'Hypo'
		However some survived with varying degrees of
		lustre by being trapped between other coins!

 

[PWA 1967]

9 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

Right..........

...........So anyway thanks for the very useful link. For me the relevant bit was this:-

1944 to 1946 - Officially dark toned by 'Hypo'
		However some survived with varying degrees of
		lustre by being trapped between other coins!

 

Yes there was one recently were one side was fully MT and the other with none at all that Dave craddock had and although i didnt see it Bruce at Golbourn coins had on his last list.

You will see them described as MT with 40% 60% Lustre etc.

Edited May 5, 2019 by PWA 1967

[1949threepence]

4 minutes ago, PWA 1967 said:

Yes there was one recently were one side was fully MT and the otherwith none at all that Dave craddock had and although i didnt see it Bruce at Golbourn coins had on his last list.

You will see them described as MT with 40% %0% Lustre etc.

That would be consistent with Gouby's explanation.

Do Golbourn coins have a website? I did do a search, but couldn't find them. Maybe the name spelling is adrift?