1844 crown real or fake?

[zookeeperz]

Hi chaps can I get a few opinions on this crown. One of the guys on the FB group was looking to sell it and asked for a valuation. I said its a knock off for obvious reasons well they are to me.

All the leaves are wrong just really thick and clumsy that left plume inside the crown is nothing like a plume. there's lots of little things but it to me very crude on workmanship and looks like a typical coin aged to look worn although nothing really is worn. I have put it alongside an LCA coin for comparison . thanks

 

[mrbadexample]

I don't see anything that concerns me, although I don't think it's a particularly good comparison due to the very different degrees of wear. 

[zookeeperz]

5 hours ago, mrbadexample said:

I don't see anything that concerns me, although I don't think it's a particularly good comparison due to the very different degrees of wear. 

Wow really? it's junk the leaves are not correct just lumps. Look how thick they are almost 3 times thicker in density. Look at the lion in the top right shield the tail is supposed to come from the haunches and go directly away from the body with the tail leaning towards the right center jewel. Not stuck underneath the lions neck and mane? the length of the lions arms are wrong short stubby blobs and the inner border is too close to the shield border. I would bet my life that its fake. Our craftsmanship on coins are some of the finest in the world. That coin is an eyesore if ever I saw one. Typical fake coin aged to look old an worn but if you look closely nothing is actually worn at all. Even where the ribbon ties are look at the branches to the left and right. the right hand one is twice as thick as the left and they are both twice as thick as the real coin?

[ozjohn]

Looks a little sus with weakness in the middle of the shield. What's the obverse like does the reverse weakness correspond with the obverse?

[Unwilling Numismatist]

I think I want to start the it's a real one club. They just wear a bit and the design appears to flatten out when worn.

exhibit B: my 1845 with as similar wear pattern as possible to your image.

[Peckris]

I think it's just a worn example. Who'd want to fake something that worn?

[zookeeperz]

7 hours ago, Unwilling Numismatist said:

I think I want to start the it's a real one club. They just wear a bit and the design appears to flatten out when worn.

exhibit B: my 1845 with as similar wear pattern as possible to your image.

But yours still look like leaves and you don't have an FA cup instead of a plume in the left part of the crown

 

[zookeeperz]

9 hours ago, ozjohn said:

Looks a little sus with weakness in the middle of the shield. What's the obverse like does the reverse weakness correspond with the obverse?

yes just as indistinguishable as the reverse. No pattern visible on the ribbons no hair visible on the nape of the neck

 

[Rob]

And the edge? That's the thing that copies always fall down on. Out of sight, out of mind (invisible idiot)

[zookeeperz]

Edge has incuse lettering but it looks like it was done by a panel beater lol

 

[zookeeperz]

[Garrett]

Doesn't look too much different to this one sold a few years ago.

http://www.noble.com.au/auctions/lot/?id=311206

cheers Garrett.

 

[zookeeperz]

5 minutes ago, Garrett said:

Doesn't look too much different to this one sold a few years ago.

http://www.noble.com.au/auctions/lot/?id=311206

cheers Garrett.

 

yes thats kind of worrying me even more as it has that same flaw on the center of the reverse same thick leaves and non existent hair braiding? 

[mrbadexample]

53 minutes ago, zookeeperz said:

yes thats kind of worrying me even more as it has that same flaw on the center of the reverse same thick leaves and non existent hair braiding? 

Are you suggesting that one's fake too? 

[Rob]

I have no problem with the existence of two examples from the same worn dies. I note the marks to the neck and rims are in different places.

[zookeeperz]

3 hours ago, mrbadexample said:

Are you suggesting that one's fake too? 

nope not at all. i'll just stop coins altogether. I don't trust what I see in the marketplace anymore . Full of scammers and even the dealers try to palm you off with cleaned junk or polished discs. Just getting a little sick of it tbh. I can count on 1 hand decent sellers. The rest just sell at over inflated prices for junk coins. Going to box it all up put it in the loft and let the kids go through it when I pop my clogs. Like what Sky bet says "when the fun stops STOP!" lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[zookeeperz]

Just an update the coin weighs 27.86g the guy is taking it to a dealer today. Let's  hope it's the real deal

 

[Stuntman]

My 1845 for comparison as well if it helps, which has slightly less wear than the coin in question but still plenty of honest wear.

 

[zookeeperz]

I think what has happened is the pictures the guy supplied were from scans so naturally the coin will show no detail and he prob had it on black and white. How many times do we say ignore pictures as they never tell the true story for a multitude of reasons. One day it will register in my noggin Pictures LIE. lol