1860 Pattern Pennies in Spink Auction

[Bernie]

I would like to communicate with the previous owner of the two 1860 official pattern pennies that were sold in the Spink auction on the 3rd December.

Other readers may also be able to help. I would like to establish the provenance of Lot 1145 (Freeman 751)

Spink Catalogue had no provenance listed. As far as I am aware, only three coins are recorded for this variety. One in the British Museum, one Ex. Freeman (sold in 1984) and one previously owned by Vigil M Brand.

My thought is that the Spink auction coin is therefore probably the Ex. V M Brand coin. Any help in identifying the Spink auction coin would be most appreciated.

[PWA 1967]

Have you asked Spink Ian.

My questions previously have always been answered within a couple of days ?.

[PWA 1967]

Sorry just had mails from Ian should of said Bernie.

[Bernie]

Thank you for the recommendation, I will give it a try. Coincidently, Ian may be able to through some light on my request, he has been disposing of many pennies lately, perhaps these patterns were his ??

[PWA 1967]

Does not cost anything to try Bernie.

I did not want to inconvenience the sellers and have asked Spink a couple of questions on previous lots i had bought.

A couple of days later the sellers have sent me a mail saying Spink had been in touch with them.

[PWA 1967]

Thank you for the recommendation, I will give it a try. Coincidently, Ian may be able to through some light on my request, he has been disposing of many pennies lately, perhaps these patterns were his ??

Ian finds some nice pennies such as the Die number 4 currently listed .

Good luck and hope it sells quickly Ian

[alfnail]

Hi Bernie / Pete, afraid those Spink patterns weren't mine, although I did watch the auction most of the afternoon thinking I may pick up an F7 on the cheap, or at least somewhere near the top estimate. Wish I hadn't wasted my time now as was impinging on 5 o'clock drinks time and then went for about 3x top estimate. I was also interested in Lot 1362, an 1874 without H which seemed to have a spike on top of lighthouse, but somehow talked myself out of that one too....have to set a limit and stick to it.

I do have an F763 (Gouby A1 + in a mid grade, the one with rotated R, which I may part with in an effort to ruthlessly thin down my collection.

Thanks for your best wishes on the 1863 Die 4 Pete, it has quickly achieved 9 watchers since posting late afternoon, already 1 offer but not quite near enough the mark.

[alfnail]

....why the devil did my 'b' turn into a smiley face when I hit the post button.........perhaps I shouldn't have had that bottle of red!?

[Bernie]

I have emailed Richard at Spink, Asking him if he could pass on an email to the seller of the pattern pennies, Pete.

Some high prices were achieved on the high quality bronze. I had hopes myself on the very high quality 1672 halfpenny. I was hoping that it might go cheap, but watched it zoom up to about £5K.

You have some lovely rare bronze pennies Ian, the 1863 die 4 is one of the best that I have seen, most are just CD's. Very best of luck selling them!!

Ian, I recall having a similar problem once with the smilies, I think the code for the smilies maybe ... A1 + b

[PWA 1967]

As you know Ian the F7 was one i wanted but set a limit of £900 thinking i would be in with a good chance+24 %

What was the estimate all about £2-£300 it got my interest

Good luck Bernie ,hopefully it was sold by someone who can help you.

[jelida]

I was the underbidder on the F7 at £1050 but there's always some-one wants it more, it seems for me. Nice coin. I can wait.

Jerry

[Bernie]

It doesn't surprise me that the F7 sold for that price, the image of the coin made it look a superior coin, possibly the best !

[alfnail]

Thanks for your best wishes with my sales Bernie, think my F7 may be on a par with the Spinks one, but will probably keep this in my thinned down collection......there are some I am going to struggle to let go, despite the constant ear bashing from my wife about my children never wanting them, so might as well spend the money.......I wonder if this mid (late) life crisis is something that all numismatists have to suffer!

P.S. Learnt how to do intentional smileys now!!

[Rob]

A constant problem for half the time. Then at others I'm told to get it if I can afford it. You have to tread a very thing line on the Brownie point thing.

[1949threepence]

As you know Ian the F7 was one i wanted but set a limit of £900 thinking i would be in with a good chance+24 %

What was the estimate all about £2-£300 it got my interest

Good luck Bernie ,hopefully it was sold by someone who can help you.

That F7 was a beauty, and I thought it might go for more than it did. If I'd known it was going to fetch just £1100, I just might have been tempted to have had a punt myself, even though I've already go one in EF which cost me £500.

The Spink Freeman 7

[PWA 1967]

Although it went for £1100 + ,the question is you dont know even if you had bid weather the buyer would of carried on.

I bought an F8 ,F9 and 1862 Halfpenny date at the last spink auction ,i might of paid over the odds .

The thing is i could of waited a long time to find them in better grades and still ended up paying more , as with the scarce ones you either buy them or keep looking.

We never know

[1949threepence]

Although it went for £1100 + ,the question is you dont know even if you had bid weather the buyer would of carried on.

I bought an F8 ,F9 and 1862 Halfpenny date at the last spink auction ,i might of paid over the odds .

The thing is i could of waited a long time to find them in better grades and still ended up paying more , as with the scarce ones you either buy them or keep looking.

We never know

That's absolutely true, of course. I've made several auction bids where the winning bid has been just £50 above mine. As you say, we never know.

[PWA 1967]

Although it went for £1100 + ,the question is you dont know even if you had bid weather the buyer would of carried on.

I bought an F8 ,F9 and 1862 Halfpenny date at the last spink auction ,i might of paid over the odds .

The thing is i could of waited a long time to find them in better grades and still ended up paying more , as with the scarce ones you either buy them or keep looking.

We never know

That's absolutely true, of course. I've made several auction bids where the winning bid has been just £50 above mine. As you say, we never know.

Putting that link up has made me wish i had carried on

[jaggy]

Although it went for £1100 + ,the question is you dont know even if you had bid weather the buyer would of carried on.

I bought an F8 ,F9 and 1862 Halfpenny date at the last spink auction ,i might of paid over the odds .

The thing is i could of waited a long time to find them in better grades and still ended up paying more , as with the scarce ones you either buy them or keep looking.

We never know

That's absolutely true, of course. I've made several auction bids where the winning bid has been just £50 above mine. As you say, we never know.

You need to have that line in the sand above which you will not bid. In an auction, discipline (as with other forms of investing) is essential otherwise you can get drawn into a bidding war and end up paying well over what a coin is worth.

I was the underbidder on the 1791 pattern sixpence. Having recently acquired the 1788 and 1790 patterns, I had a view on what this coin was worth. My line in the sand was £650 and the coin went for £700. Well above estimate I would add.

Coin collecting is a long game and another 1791 Pattern will show up sooner or later and, hopefully, I will get it then.

[PWA 1967]

Discipline and how much do i want it are unfortunately two different things.

I can understand the theory but sometimes i have just bought them and crossed it off the list.

I dont buy them for an investment i do that elsewere and if in years to come i have paid to much well so be it ,so long as its ok and problem free i am happy.

Dont get me wrong we dont want to pay way over for anything but £100 on a coin at £500 + not sometimes worth waiting for another.

[jaggy]

Discipline and how much do i want it are unfortunately two different things.

I can understand the theory but sometimes i have just bought them and crossed it off the list.

I dont buy them for an investment i do that elsewere and if in years to come i have paid to much well so be it ,so long as its ok and problem free i am happy.

Dont get me wrong we dont want to pay way over for anything but £100 on a coin at £500 + not sometimes worth waiting for another.

I don't buy coins as an investment either. But I apply the same form of discipline as I would when I am investing. I have been collecting for 30 years so if I have to wait another 5 years to get the right coin then that is okay. In the meantime there will be plenty of other right' coins to keep me happy.

[PWA 1967]

You know your subject Jaggy and obviously have an amazing collection.

I often look at ones you have bought and all look really nice.

Any pictures to share on anything you have bought lately ?.

You may be able to help me,i recently bought a copper penny that was in a recent heritage sale 1858 F/B in Def although not described that way.

It was in the Bob Bennett collection ,can i assume he was an american collector of just pennies as Heritage/internet does not say anything about him ?.

[jaggy]

You know your subject Jaggy and obviously have an amazing collection.

I often look at ones you have bought and all look really nice.

Any pictures to share on anything you have bought lately ?.

You may be able to help me,i recently bought a copper penny that was in a recent heritage sale 1858 F/B in Def although not described that way.

It was in the Bob Bennett collection ,can i assume he was an american collector of just pennies as Heritage/internet does not say anything about him ?.

Well, I did buy a Charles I sixpence at Spink. A bit of a 'cheapie' but no photos till I receive it. I have two bids in at London Coins so we will see how that goes. And then there is DNW; not much there for me so I don't know if I will come away with anything.

I do bid at Heritage and remember seeing the Bob Bennett collection. But, unfortunately, I don't know anything about him. Perhaps an email to Heritage would help. I have always found them to be very good.

[1949threepence]

Although it went for £1100 + ,the question is you dont know even if you had bid weather the buyer would of carried on.

I bought an F8 ,F9 and 1862 Halfpenny date at the last spink auction ,i might of paid over the odds .

The thing is i could of waited a long time to find them in better grades and still ended up paying more , as with the scarce ones you either buy them or keep looking.

We never know

That's absolutely true, of course. I've made several auction bids where the winning bid has been just £50 above mine. As you say, we never know.

You need to have that line in the sand above which you will not bid. In an auction, discipline (as with other forms of investing) is essential otherwise you can get drawn into a bidding war and end up paying well over what a coin is worth.

I was the underbidder on the 1791 pattern sixpence. Having recently acquired the 1788 and 1790 patterns, I had a view on what this coin was worth. My line in the sand was £650 and the coin went for £700. Well above estimate I would add.

Coin collecting is a long game and another 1791 Pattern will show up sooner or later and, hopefully, I will get it then.

It definitely is a long game, and a game in which one has to be very patient over protracted periods of time. Eventually an opportunity to obtain the coin you want. Then it's a matter of what you pay/bid, how good the coin is, and whether such a chance will come up again.