Martinminerva

I too have both sub-types of face/chin for 1892 - a very interesting spot, Bee - jolly well done on raising a hitherto unnoticed variety!! Not that my sample is huge, but all my fat face/double chin ones are Gouby BP1892Aa with the 13.5 beads date width, and the slimmer face ones are Gouby BP1892Ab with 14 beads date (and the BP1892B only-recorded-on Gouby website 13 bead narrow date see: http://www.michael-coins.co.uk/bp_1892_varieties.htm (wonder why he never included this last one in his book??)) All good fun!! Wonder if there are more crossover dates or indeed date widths?

They are VERY common - almost one and a half billion (!) minted in 1971 (1,454,856,250 to be precise!) and hundreds of millions in the subsequent years. They are NOT selling for that money (merely optimistically listed at that): as others have said here it is only the 1983 mules that are rare. A combination of ignorance, misunderstanding and downright deception is behind the ludicrous pricing. If anyone has actually bought one for silly money, frankly more fool them!

First thing to do is to ascertain if they really are different obverses: easily done - 13 has the "missing leaf" compared to 12. If so, no need to worry about fractional possible differences around nose/lips/eye area. If they prove to be the same obverse, like Richard and Rob, I don't think there's any significant difference worth noting. Could well be depth/pressure of strike, wear of die, resistance of metal in each blank etc. With the 1899 and other date widths you might see, you really need to get hold of that latest Gouby (2020 additions) as he covers all manner of subtle date varieties - but as we've said before on these threads, many other date widths (and heights!!) are known, even if not catalogued by Gouby yet.

Yes, it certainly is. Richard (santa) will I'm sure agree when he gets my post and tweak the example numbers. Too many Richards with you too!!😉 Happy variety hunting!

Think it is an "actual" 7 over 7 (lower 7 type) and therefore example 12, rather than 3A of the higher 7 type, Richard @secret santa @The BeeBee - my thoughts on your other coins: the 1860 is typical of what happens when a coin is buried in soil for ages (ie. a detector find) and acids in the soil eat away at, ironically, the more raised parts of the design leaving this "ghost" image of letters and numerals. Have seen it myself on numerous coins, silver included, so of no numismatic interest, sadly. The 8 double entered on the 1893 is a sign of die strengthening/repair/re-entry as happened a lot in the Victorian series as dies often got a real pounding. All sorts of dates display various letters and numbers thus doubled. If you do track down a copy of Gouby's latest penny book with the update pages (good luck!), he covers quite a few examples, but loads of others are known. The less obvious the doubling, generally the less interest there is - compare the significant doubling of your 1874 above! The 1863 halfpenny looks like a standard large 3 (see below - from Richard's halfpenny website, parallel to his penny one) to me. I think on your example, some wear or scuffing diagonally across the 3 from top right to bottom left has deformed the 3 slightly? Again, I don't think it is of any significance.

Yes - certainly is. Another nice find - you seem to have a few! Richard (secretsanta) might well appreciate full coin pictures of both obverse and reverse for his website...

An over-letter would not account for the sharp gap between the round bottom bulb of the "B" and the vestigial leg of the R, whereas a scratch and metal displacement would. All other proven B over R's or R over B's on other Victorian denominations show no such gap as metal flow on the die when corrections are made maintains smoothness. I'm not saying it's categorically not, but we need a much clearer picture to be certain either way. This is the best I can do with the original supplied image - I'm sure I can see a scratch...

Think it is just a scratch that runs through the letter and has displaced some of the metal of leg of the R. Given that the coin has clearly been through the wars - looks like a detector find - with all its various dings and scratches, for me it is just damage. Can you do a much enlarged / better resolution pic to help be sure? I have blown up your existing image which I think shows the scratch:

I think it is post mint damage, I'm afraid. With a bit of judicious photo editing (see below), I believe one can determine a suspiciously straight line running through the R and across Victoria's cheek, typical of a scuff. I have done it myself on occasions when metal detecting and scuffing a coin with my trowel (boo!). That would certainly account for the flattening of the letters.

Yes, another good find! These are scarce rather than rare and there are many subtly different types of 1865 over 3 overdate, but yours is indeed nice and clear. Keep up the good work and welcome to the world of varieties!

Hi I will start a new thread and send it ! See my comments in that new thread. F41 is the small date 1862 penny.

Think that's not the one secret santa meant - this, I believe, will be your 1861 with the weak letters and serifs you mentioned in the other thread (die fill, rather than a true variety, by the way). F41 is the small date 1862 penny, and the obverse above surely cannot match the 1862 you posted earlier due to the massive differences in wear!!

Yes - indeed so. Jolly well done.

Please can you post a photo of that one too?

I have this one also - 13.5 beads and final 7 over 7:

Yes - yet another one of these (fortunately) crap copies from China.

Actually, the circulation ones being released are 2023 after all, and they too don't have mintmarks... So only the set ones from 2023 are mintmarked, and none thereafter, it seems.

The 2024 ones don't which is what I imagine are being released - see below. I haven't found this one in circulation by the way, so no claim to the prize/bragging rights, but many are for sale on ebay etc.

Well that sounds like one 'ell of a challenge !😉 But, how are you going to be sure it's not one from one of the year sets already released being scanned and posted...

I believe too it doesn't exist. As has been said before on this and other gothic florin threads, there are an awful lot of mistakes in the catalogues and listings for this series that just keep being perpetuated (eg the Bull reference)!

No - it is a high tide as Richard says above. Rather than mucking around with the sea level, much easier identifiers are that the shield almost touches the border beads at its bottom left, and the P of Penny points between two beads. On the common type, there is a distinct gap between shield and beads and P points to a bead. Simples!!

Ah, but it does have the wonderful "grade of G 6" if you read the ebay AI generated blurb. Clearly AI is yet to understand Freeman die pairs, then... 😉

Wishful thinking, I'm afraid. The 8 over 6 type is very clear as can be seen below (courtesy of Richard's penny website). Having said that, yours has signs of doubled entry/strengthening on the 1 and the 6 of the date, so the 8 too might have had work done...

On 6/10/2024, PWA 1967 said: Have you not sent LCA an email Rob to just post you one. Doesn't seem to work! See my original comment above...

Not had a printed catalogue for over two years now, despite regularly requesting them and having spent hundreds (and sold similarly) with them over the years. Likewise nowadays rarely bid with them. The online catalogue is a poor substitute for the printed, the latter which I used to like to peruse at my leisure. Lockdales did the same with me many years ago, and I have never bid with them since.