zookeeperz

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1863-Penny-Open-3-Very-rare-in-any-grade-/292269688927 Is this an open 3 ? I thought the downstroke was supposed to be curved? Or is this a slender 3 The bottom serif is short of where it should be?

I wonder if this is his mate lol http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/default-world-war-1-lord-kitchener-/122748409985 Did he mean Faulty?

And furthermore Do you not think it is a conflict of interest to be 1. The auction house that sells the coins (also means gets to see every lot to cherry pick if desired) Not saying that is the case though. 2. To also be the sole grading house for the UK. 3 To actively sell the same coins your grading as a business venture. There is some sticky ground that could be open to abuse. Coins could be under graded As they sell for profit. If a similar coin is available by a 3rd party at a higher grade it means they won't sell theirs. Again I am being devils advocate I would hope they are honest johns. But this day and age nothing surprises me.

But they have 3 graders that have to come to an agreement. Surely they all can't be blind lol. If you look on london coin auctions at the slabbed CGS coins that are graded 75 and 78 some of them are not even as good as the two above . I totally agree that their grading criteria is very harsh. After all we have people who wrote books on grading. If you were to apply the british grading standards we would be at the same point the USA TPG V CGS cross over is. And who is it that made them God almighty in the grading world. Obviously if they can't get it right then they should go by the book and leave well alone. Or maybe they only grade coins they bought raw to sell higher?

Well if they are going to grade coins like this and give them both the same grade I wouldn't go near them.Both attributed EF60. I can't fathom the vast difference between the grades. Anyone?

Wow that must be the finest know surely? Be worth an absolute fortune . I am drooling fantastic coin I looked on London coin auctions and the finest they have ever seen was VF/GVF and that sold for £1500

Yes I find it rather a flippant attitude taken by some that certain dates will be vastly overdone with date widths when it's obvious some are exactly the same. Yet others get a foot-note can be seen wide narrow high or low. I guess it depends on how many you stock perhaps

Likewise Terry. I was trying to post an email convo I had with CGS back when they first started in 2007 but am unable too . Not sure if its because its too long or there might be characters that this site doesn't recognise. Shame really it makes good reading. I believe I was the major instigator in changing the way CGS graded variety coins. They were of the opinion that only those printed in the books should be categorised . After a few blurts of who do you think you are and your opinion means nothing. you are paid to do a service and to note differences no matter what they are. That is how varieties started in the first place. The collector deems weather he will purchase a coin for a whole number of different reasons and being a different type of the same coin being one of them. They countered with it makes no monetary difference. I then pointed them to two coins selling on ebay An unc coin and a EF same date but with a 8/8 lower and the EF coin sold x3 the amount. So I said there your argument is total nonsense. They decided to change how they graded coins and to attribute varieties as they occur and as you probably know they have the most extensive list of varieties for British coins anywhere. Only prob is you have to pay £90 for the pleasure of viewing the info.£500 I spent to grade coins and most came back with no explanation as to why and the coins that I wanted attributed I knew would only be details grading but I wanted them on record. In fairness they did offer to regrade all my coins again at no cost but I was so annoyed I couldn't be bothered to wait another 3 months to get them back lol.

If it were me and that's only because I laugh in the face of danger (not) I'd be loading the van with shovels as we speak

I'll volunteer

I have lots of Pennies with differences. I did at one time send them to certain places (picture form) to point out the differences and some are just so noticeable you would need to be blind not to see them. Just seems if your name isn't bla bla bla you just get shot down with some stupid counter argument like they are from two different coins. I mean really its all most just short of an insult lol. Like this 1864 penny normal and narrow date. I don't think the narrow date is even listed.

yup appears there is a repair that would go along with your explanation

Apart from the leg doesn't narrow at all on coin A and starts to halfway down on coin B. I guess coin A could have a repair?i'll look closer to see if there is a join . Thanks for reply Michael

I used ebay quite a lot about 10 years ago and I have to admit it was much better then than it is now. The quality of the coins was exceptional. Even the unsearched lots were simply that and there were many with expensive bling amongst them. I just feel the rogue trader has set up in Ebay rather like the wandering travellers they invade pitch up , stay for a while, leave and then return again. Surely Ebay can IP ban these accounts esp the chinese fakers. But I forgot it means less revenue for ebay. They have a line they always say when you tell them something is fake. "prove it or call the police" Basically saying GFY we aint interested. I don't like being a nosey busy body but I don't like seeing innocent decent folk get stitched up for their hard earned. Every single seller of fake coins drives another nail in the coffin for reputable sellers which decrease with every passing day. Or even the half decent seller who use the terms "see pictures for details you decide" Well yes that is all well and good but they know if the coin has problems. I even bought a half crown and I think it is still on Ebay now that has 2 bullet holes on the head. The original picture with the sale had been photoshopped to brush the damage out. Then follows the excuse oh sorry I sent the wrong coin. And if your doing things like that knowing ebay has your back as a premium seller then I lay the blame at ebay's feet. tbh it is only because the auction houses drove their % of commision from 5% to 20% and then the vat on top that I turned to ebay to sell off some goods and not lose out . Very difficult to buy when your already facing 40% on top of the hammer price and even more if you have it delivered with the outrageous delivery prices they slap on.A lot of my bookmarks for online coin shops I had to delete as they have all closed. Sign of the times I guess

Here is a close up

Smee again I was looking through some low balls as you do and I came across some 1890 Pennies with difference in legend lettering. As in the R In Regina is On one obverse Straight legged and away from the E and the other has a longer curved leg almost touching the E. Is this normal? Or should I say does this happen frequently on 1890 pennies? Your thoughts? Thanks

Don't I feel such a fool now I actually saw the size of the cannon ball on the normal coin. Perhaps they were mini cannons lols

Could there be more than 1 type though?

What do guys think cannon ball ? It's on the 1875 wide date Penny

Perfect feedback is bogus. Ebay protect premium sellers. They allow them so many negative feedbacks per month and still keep 100% record. Whilst they rake in the commissions

I bet any of today's crop of TPG's would probably details grade it for excessive hairlines lol.

I think the VIP proof's are heavily frosted to the point that there is no mistake. Something like our modern commemoratives Or Canadian 1980's and 1990's. Apparently the mirror effect on VIP proofs is much more intense and all the lettering is frosted as well. Although not always the case as you can see by this 1943 VIP proof half crown. Amazingly PCGS graded it PF66. I call foul on that..

The old chestnut Mintage figures V balance book figures. Royal mint allocates a figure on all proof coins on how many coins will be minted for any given proof and it is usually down to order book size as to how many they will knock off in each run. Like benjamin britten 50 pence piedfort now I know they set aside 5000 should they be needed. But public interest was hardly enthusiastic. 1000 customers bought them and that was it job done and that is the figure entered in the book. Now when you get a news bulletin on the TV about rare coins. One of the first to be mentioned is the Benjamin Britten Piedfort and the bugle boy blow 50p's. They were never rare. Nobody wanted them so only what was ordered were struck. Amazing how something unpopular suddenly becomes a rarity because of fake news. Plus there will be others of that coin type in sets. They are doing it with the Kew 50 pence. You and I know the circulation kew is considered a scarcity as probably all of them have been lifted from circulation. But where is the justification for proof kew's and blister kews and piedfort kews to be the ridiculous prices they are selling at? Not one of them against their fellow coin counterparts are even remotely scarce. Joe public is pretty much dumb and sheeplike. One kew is rare then they all must be lol

Not exactly Ebay and whilst I think charities do a lot of good work. It concerns me somewhat when I see this. Is there anywhere we can be safe from this kind of misrepresentation. I call it that because with the vast amount of information available it takes seconds to check fact from fiction. I did politely suggest that the coin in question if you ask the 1.5 billion siblings of the coin would they deem it rare :). Oh and to put straight the fact NEW PENNY is on all 1p coins until the change to ONE PENNY in 1982. http://www.oxfam.org.uk/shop/stamps-and-coins/coins-and-banknotes/rare-1971-one-new-penny-hd_101017567

Thanks Jerry In my original post I said with caution . I know only too well that pictures can look so different if taken at an angle. But sadly and I am as big a culprit but I do try to just take top down pics but my picture taking skill is novice at best. Sometimes I cannot believe what results I get from a Gem BU coin esp with scope pics. They show what isn't even visible to a loupe. Same can be said when viewing on forums some pics are pretty poor to say the least. Yet the so called experts seem to see through all the lens glare and over exposure and say they can see all manor of things on your coin and if they have never see a variety type before it's a fake and they spot glue residue lols. I asked on Aussie forum about 1922 threepence double die reverse. If it was a known variety type. In 2 days one person answered "looks like one". Whilst grateful that he confirmed what I already knew it didn't really answer my question. Well actually it did lol. It's obviously unknow and they all went to their hideaways to check all their 1922 threepences