Coinery

You really need to remove that S from your keyboard Debbie....The other comment i was really joking WHAT! I've just ordered an extra key for the Frontera...you've let me down, aZda! I'd order a new car if it's a Frontera you have Good on fuel, been reliable, pulls our house around like a dream ;-)

Buy Englands striking history it will introduce you gently and in a readable way to hammered.It is a Rotographic book and a bargain. I enjoyed reading that one! I wholeheartedly agree that this should be on the bookshelf of anyone starting out with hammered!

You should see what some Americans charge UK buyers for postage. $32 isn't cheap either I've just bought a hammered coin from the states, with postage charge $16 - not bad I thought, but in his listing he writes: "USPS International Registered shipping takes 1-2 months to arrive so if this time frame does not work for you do not bid". Not that friendly a statement, so I queried it, thinking he must mean 1-2 weeks...nope, he means 1-2 months! I still bought it anyway...it hasn't arrived, yet!

You really need to remove that S from your keyboard Debbie....The other comment i was really joking WHAT! I've just ordered an extra key for the Frontera...you've let me down, aZda!

Yes, one of the more educational posts, thanks for sharing the final findings, excellent thread!

What about this for a response, after asking for an emailed photo of the reverse (usual 1 picture listing)! "hi, sorry i do not have another picture but i can send a link to a picture of the same half sovereign sorry for the inconvenience hope this helps and good luck http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=edward+vii+1907+half+sovereign&start=108&hl=en&biw=1280&bih=679&gbv=2&tbm=isch&tbnid=0zpAAFnilBpfwM:&imgrefurl=http://www.coindatabase.com/coin_detail_libras.php%3Fcdb%3DL230021&docid=ToWdfhz_x98J2M&imgurl=http://www.coindatabase.com/pic/w250/img/591pix_BritishCoins/1S_E7_rev_1907.jpg&w=250&h=250&ei=iMuGT7WFLYiu0QW415CpBw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=699&vpy=218&dur=1414&hovh=200&hovw=200&tx=129&ty=103&sig=117024365258692941076&page=6&tbnh=152&tbnw=152&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:15,s:108,i:88 I suspect that the obverse picture is poached too, so check that point out if you are the one bidding on this 0% feedback eBayer! Item is: 180858576416 (1907 half sov.)

Me too, if anyone knows anything! I really did think he'd pop back up again. For someone who lived and breathed this forum for a number of months, his sudden departure doesn't paint the prettiest picture. Coming from a nursing background, I have more than the occasional kind thought for his life as he openly described it!

George III was in no position to object as he was in la la land for the last decade of his reign. It was reputedly the general populace who weren't over-enamoured with the Bull Head portrait, as for some reason they didn't want to see old , fat and ugly monarchs portrayed as just that. Once those shameless flatterers, the Wyons had shuffled off this mortal coil, I suspect realism returned to the coinage and in my view most up to the present day (perhaps with the exception of the Machin and Maklouf portraits of the present queen) have represented a reasonably objective view of the sitter. But the temptation to 'go for a gong' by producing a shamelessly buttered-up portrait of the sitting monarch is still there. Hence (one of the reasons!) why I believe we should bannish the monarch's head from the coinage and replace it with great (and very dead) citizens from the past who could hardly object to an unflettering depiction. Steps back and hides behind sofa... I guess losing the monarch's bust on a modern coin is no big deal anymore. Before the advent of film and photography however it was probably the biggest celebrity status there was out there, the only image the general public ever saw, of pretty much anyone! When we think 'out loud' about Liz II, we see images of her in a funny hat, taking flowers off kids, etc. I doubt anyone, not even coin collectors, think of a bust from a currency coin? A different story if we talk about images of say Charles I...we instantly see the famous paintings and, of course, his coins! Thank goodness they didn't mill images from the local games on them; a jouster with the error double lance, or a falconry hunt with the two partridge rarity!

Thanks, Seuk, I'll try and source a copy. I know that certain paintings are believed to be in good likeness of certain monarch's, the research that accompanies those claims would also be a good starting place too, I guess?

Gosh, thank-you for taking the time to answer in such depth, I will definitely take your thoughts on board. I too think it would be an interesting subject matter, particularly if enough historical references could be sourced to make for a credible assumption about the accuracy of the finished punches. Do you happen to know where a comprehensive collection of numismatic literature might be easily accessed? I guess references to the monarch's pleasure, or displeasure, in such matters, would not be confined solely to numismatic works, but how you'd winkle out the one or two lines of interest in those huge historical tomes, God only knows! If any librarians/researchers out there know of any search methods of use, please let me know?

So you're not a Buddhist then? I love rice, the solitude of mountains, sitting under trees, and have an expanding waistline...I'm in! ;-) Me too! And don't forget the getting up at 4 AM ... oh, wait... Happy Easter or whatever you celebrate, one and all Hmmm, 4am? What about Methodists or Hindus, do any of them get a lie in? I'm very flexible! Yes, happy Easter to you and all, whether you're a fan of chocolate and cinnamon-topped buns or not!

So you're not a Buddhist then? I love rice, the solitude of mountains, sitting under trees, and have an expanding waistline...I'm in! ;-) Me too! And don't forget the getting up at 4 AM ... oh, wait... Happy Easter or whatever you celebrate, one and all A happy secularist Easter (from Venice, hence the lack of activity!) Oh, very posh! I'm rather partial to Venice myself!

With art, beauty, and historical context, the greater part of my facination with numismatics, I would dearly love to read any historical accounts that could shed light upon the proximity of a monarch's likeness to the punches used on their coinage. Considering the diversity of busts throughout certain reigns, Elizabeth I and Charles I to name just two, and not forgetting those busts that are disliked by the monarch (the 'bull head,' being particularly unpopular with George III for example), it makes me wonder how much vanity played its part, and how much was actually left to the discretion of the engraver and his artistic integrity (G3 Bullhead being an example of a bust going to 'print,' presumeably without the 'proof' being approved by the king!)? Who created the truest likenesses of all, Briot maybe? Which particular bust, on which denomination, particularly pleased the king or queen? Which engravers put their own heads on the block ahead of pandering to vanity? Any information pre the photographic era, so W4 or earlier, would be very much appreciated, letters, excerpt, etc, or where to begin a search even. Also, any chance of references to go with any said information?

So you're not a Buddhist then? I love rice, the solitude of mountains, sitting under trees, and have an expanding waistline...I'm in! ;-)

God, I never thought of the Scots, not sure what side they're on? ;-) We're on the right side of Hadrians wall Gave me a good belly laugh! So, what are the stats, just a single post/entry in 24hrs, I don't think that's happened in the 7 months I've been nosing around on here?

I would but I'm none of the above. I'm a bit of all of them, Christian and atheist too, you have to cover your options if you want the coin Gods to look favourably upon you!

God, I never thought of the Scots, not sure what side they're on? ;-)

WANTED, Muslims,Hindus, or Buddhists, for chats about coins during key dates of the Christian calendar! Couldn't let pre-decimal go a full 24hrs without a single post!

How about...all the VF's could likely follow the trend, so you're getting richer by the day! And, if they don't, you can buy lots more coins! Best of both worlds :-) The variability is a pain in arse though I have to admit! Starting a particular type of collection, only to find you're priced out of the market before you complete it to your satisfaction, is a bit of a drag!

I guess this is what happens! When the cream gets too hot, we all step down a grade, or stop buying coins, which eventually revives that slack market, which in turn drives those who have been happy collecting the VF coinage into scratching around in the buckets (more or less).

Maybe take a good look at the ebay seller ID and see what you spot. To give you a little hint, there's a * in the name, so i would'nt trust that price what so ever You've got me there, Azda, what do you mean? If it was shill bidded, there's still £33 to pay in fees! And why bid up your own item that high, surely it suggests there was still someone willing to pay over £300? As I said, though, the coin may well have been UNC, but without having it in hand, and no talk in the description about lustre, etc, I couldn't even conceive of a bid at half of what it went for! That was one of the sellers with whom there was more than a whiff of collusion between him and other eBay sellers with similarly styled names. The coin definitely looks to be a proof though, not a currency piece. Correct on all counts Nick Ah, right, the penny's dropped! :-)

Maybe take a good look at the ebay seller ID and see what you spot. To give you a little hint, there's a * in the name, so i would'nt trust that price what so ever You've got me there, Azda, what do you mean? If it was shill bidded, there's still £33 to pay in fees! And why bid up your own item that high, surely it suggests there was still someone willing to pay over £300? As I said, though, the coin may well have been UNC, but without having it in hand, and no talk in the description about lustre, etc, I couldn't even conceive of a bid at half of what it went for!

It isn't as clear cut as you might think. Americans view our coins as cheap. That's why a 1901 1d sold for $600 in a US saleroom - finest known, i.e.highest graded equals worth paying megabucks. This country is not unreasonably the largest source of British coins, which means that any overseas interest will look to these shores when trying to buy the series. The internet has unquestionaly made buying easier for a worldwide customer base, but the real driver of prices will ultimately be the same old boring supply and demand. The finite numbers of coins available are augmented daily by detector finds, but the old cabinet toned rarities that have been sought ever since collectors existed are the real prize. There are now a lot more people chasing the limited numbers available, and we can't all have one. A few very wealthy individuals will pick up more than the likes of me and you, but it is only a relative thing. Even the less affluent collector can win something he or she desires if he is prepared to push the boat out, even if only on a very occasional basis. It was ever the same with a clear pecking order amongst collectors even back into the 19th century. Looking from the other side though, more than one person on this forum has spent quite a bit in CNG sales or from their shop, so it isn't all one way. The exchange rate has been quite stable for a while and so currency volatility isn't really an issue. It has been in the past and will be again in the future, but the climate is benign at the moment. There is a ready supply of money from both sides of the Atlantic for the right pieces, and both sides will compete on fairly equal terms. It's certainly interesting to see how coins bounce back and forth across the pond! One of the first 'proper' coins I ever bought for myself was a common enough, but really pretty, martlet XII of Elizabeth. I had to part with that coin soon after I bought it, and was surprised to double my money in a sale to Canada. Two years later, I spotted if for sale on eBay, but now in the hands of a UK seller. Call it luck, but I won it for less than I paid for it the first time around, and then re-presented it for sale, where I took my second handshake from the coin, and posted it back over the pond! I'd very much like to have it back at this point in my life, I wouldn't sell it a third time!

I have got to confess on revisiting the images, that it is somewhere near the grade, but there is little to point at the FDC price it achieved, certainly not in my humble opinion! I lost out regardless!

Apologies for side-tracking the classic cars (my first PROPER classic was a Jaguar 420G, would have loved an XK150, but alas) but returning to the title, an apparently 'UNC' EDVII 1902 halfcrown went on eBay tonight for £330 + post, how did that happen? You couldn't even tell if it had full lustre from the photo, or any at all for that matter, not to mention it would have been difficult to grade much over EF from the images! I had a go at it, around the EF mark, but wouldn't even have bought one side of it with my bid (150786453548)!