Coinery

Yes, thanks for that, much appreciated! Absolutely love the galloping knight, superb!

I have seen many silver coins that look like this, all in low grade, it is nothing unusual. OK, I have an awful feeling I am about to learn something I should already know! Here are my questions however... Surely the silver alloy would be a consistent colour throughout the entire depth of the planchet, not just on the surface? There seem to be numerous other low-grade coins of the same type that do not manifest this copper colour beneath the surface! Isn't this quite simply a plated copper halfcrown? Oh, and apologies to the seller if I've brought a genuine article into disrepute! Not to mention the number of G5 coins I've binned on account of copper showing just below the surface. Anyone? Right, this is a complex subject! First, the Mint had a lot of difficulty with the new 50% silver alloy, the other 50% of which consisted largely of copper, though they experimented with the precise tiny proportions of tin and zinc. The discolouration you see is present on most coins between 1920 and 1926. In the earlier years, i.e. before 1923, some of the coins have a distinctly yellowish appearance, then you get the pink coppery colours a bit later. You don't see any discolouration on the BU coins as I believe the blanks were washed in pure silver before striking (can anyone confirm?). After 1926 the mix was more stable, but even so you can see ugly discolouration on worn coins all the way through to 1946. Precisely why the copper shows through more on worn specimens is something that perhaps a chemist would need to answer. Certainly the alloy was supposed to be of even mix and quality, but it may not have been particularly stable when it came to wearing characteristics, i.e. with environmental factors and the properties of sweat, etc? Some coins instead of showing the coppery hue you see there, show an even uglier grey colour. That would tend not to draw so much attention from people like yourself, wondering if it was indeed a copper coin. But I can assure you that I have seen many many examples just like that coin on eBay, and the more worn they are the more discoloured they are. The exception being coins of 1920-1922 which can often look yellowish even in high grade and led to the Mint tinkering with the alloy to try and get it right. I'd say that coins of 1925 are possibly the worst for showing the pinky colour, so it is possible they tried a one-off alloy mix in that year? Well, just as I said, I thought I was about to learn something quite significant! Thanks, Peckris, for your usual full and diligent response! I have to say, I have genuinely learnt something quite monumental there, I'm staggered, guess I've played about pre-1920's for far too long! Time to give G5 a try then

What's amusing about the original penny in this thread, is that it completely out-dazzles the hologram...that has barely any 'rainbow' in it at all!

I have seen many silver coins that look like this, all in low grade, it is nothing unusual. OK, I have an awful feeling I am about to learn something I should already know! Here are my questions however... Surely the silver alloy would be a consistent colour throughout the entire depth of the planchet, not just on the surface? There seem to be numerous other low-grade coins of the same type that do not manifest this copper colour beneath the surface! Isn't this quite simply a plated copper halfcrown? Oh, and apologies to the seller if I've brought a genuine article into disrepute! Not to mention the number of G5 coins I've binned on account of copper showing just below the surface. Anyone?

Bi-metal Halfcrown! Do you think he/she may have noticed it's rather an odd colour for a silver coin? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1925Halfcrown-/251077139068?pt=UK_Coins_BritishMilled_RL&hash=item3a755d1a7c

I guess the biggest drawback to a scanner is that you would have no control on where the light hits the surface of the coin. Also, it must be harder to get the colour right as, I presume, our brains would ordinarily translate a coin's colour inclusive of the light it is reflecting, sky, etc, a scanner obviously doesn't permit this? Are there ways around it?

Can't believe I didn't just come out and say exactly what you did! I'm just plain dang yeller! I thought, hmmm, bloody-'ell, I couldn't possibly, arghh... And decided not to vote at all! Don't do it capulet!

background colour definitely affects scan quality, the inside of my scanner lid is white, scanning toned copper/bronze results in very dark low contrast images - the scanner averages the dark coin/light backgound. Much better results if i put a dark blue behind the coin. For bronze with lustre, i use a yellowish brown background. Also important to crop the actual scan window as close as possible (in the preview mode) , to eliminate as much background as possible before the final scan worth experimenting, but always scan at a high res, you can always reduce the picture size later Any chance you could link to, or put up, a couple of examples with your different scanned backgrounds?

I've just left Tony Clayton's site (link left by 1949threepence in 'major copper rarities'), and noticed that a lot of the images are scans, courtesy of MP. Does anyone find scanned images beneficial in any way when viewing a coin? I've never used a scanner for coins before, but have a top of the range, monstrosity of a thing, in the mother-in-law's attic, and was trying to make a decision about whether it's worth digging out?

These are my favourite of all the 'full-size' farthings, I especially love the colour of the copper for this period, when unpitted, that is! I recently sold a 'no obverse stops' coin that I also ummed and aahhhed about keeping instead! Why didn't you go for it at £125?

THE STANDARD GUIDE TO GRADING BRITISH COINS As Declan said, even the most seasoned will consistently pull that book off the shelf...more regularly than anyone would care to admit, I suspect, especially if you are constantly switching between hammered, early milled, milled, later milled, decimal (maybe not decimal) coins, etc. It is a bit like taking your driving/TV glasses off, or coming in from the sun...no matter how good you are, there's a period of adjustment between grades, values, expectations of types, etc. If only there were a book as good that could get your eye in for all the other types out there! Things would probably be more standardised than is currently the case with CGS's.

And don't forget that grading is an art not a science. Yes, I believe the moment one realises it's an art, full of variables, and not a science, is the moment you're beginning to get it! Not forgetting to then add another twenty years or so!

People are forever putting coins up here and inviting others to have a stab at grading them, just have a go! If you honestly confess that you are just having a guess to build up your experience, there'll be half a dozen people here who will step forward and explain to you why you have or haven 't got it right, invaluable! You can be sure the grading will be just about spot-on when the big guns get involved! Welcome, and enjoy! It takes years, so be prepared!

Welcome Pies!! That's a very nice coin, much better than Fine I would say! If you paid Fine price you did incredibly well!! I would great as Good Very Fine, let's see if I get shouted down! Nothing wrong with the pics either, if you want them much bigger (in size and bytes) than the site limit, a lot of the members here (me included) upload them to a site like Photobucket and embed the links. I would value that coin at £40-£60, can I ask what you paid? I'm with you on that, Paulus, I'd say the top of your estimate too, on account it's quite pretty for its type!

Ahh, then you'll be a reasonably well informed collector, requiring a very different approach - buy quality!

to buy food and marijuana Yes the normal procedure is the other way around!! Aye!

Could probably recommend that you stay away from such distractions, you'll never get anything done! Put me off-track for a good 20 years

Been using Debbie's grading scale...Very F**ked to Extremely F**ked!

I personally think that attempting to buy the best examples will prevent you from learning, you need as many coins in hand as possible! You're going to make all kinds of mistakes, and much better to be doing that on lower value coins! Not forgetting of course that lower-grade coins will hone your attribution skills considerably! Also, I presume, what you need is a collection? Get some stuff together with the plan to upgrade it once money and experience is more in your favour! You could very quickly lose interest if you've only got two coins in your 'collection,' with the prospect of another month's hard saving or more to your next one! Get the books, get some coins in hand, and get classifying, that would be my tip! Forget the struggles, just enjoy, you can struggle later, once you know exactly what you're looking for! How many beads do you want? How many jewels in the crown? Misaligned letter in the legend? Etc etc.

I guess I should also add, that coins for sale on this website, and by dealers who participate on this forum, are very much transparent in their pricings! Remember they are trading amongst their peers, so a very honest place to be checking out values and buying genuine coins!

It hardly seems worth getting the catalogue out or looking any more closely than an I-phone image of your coins because, at those prices, nobody is going to be able to save you very much whatever the advice! If you can continue to build your collection at these rates, you'll never be setting the world on fire when you cash it in, but you won't have lost anything, that's for sure! You're starting very sensibly; a respected (mostly) price-guide, and communications with the best forum on the web...there are people on here that you will never transcend in their knowledge on these matters and, moreover, they share their hard-earned learnings willingly! Stick around...in ten years you will be hooked and putting all your savings into antique coins, you wait and see, welcome!

Wow, £350+ translated, could be a long while waiting! With a full flan, probably a fair price, and considerably more, as a collector!

Had a similar grade coin, without the 'edge,' struggled to come even close to a VF price on sale! Too common, everyone who wants one has one and, those who haven't, know too little, and aren't playing at that level YET! IMO If it's to resale, which I'm sure it is, only if it's being given away!

It's a really sad state of affairs! My son is 4 and my gift to him will be the knowledge to work WITH the system, but looking all the time for the gaps and side streets where an intelligent groat can be made! I feel so immensely sorry for my old Theatre colleagues who are strangled to the point where they can no longer take a free breath and float in contemplation of their lives anymore! How can these poor people make informed change in these circumstances? You've got it spot on Peter! Incidently, that was meant to read NON-compliance in an earlier post!

That is precisely what is so worrying about the current state of the western world. There is absolutely no incentive to save. A savings account won't keep up with inflation, neither will a CD or government bonds. In the US you can "save" by putting money in an individual retirement account (IRA) which (in the most common structures) is tax free until you take out money when it is taxed as income. There are 2 problems to this though, first, the chances of taxes decreasing is slim. Why would I pay a higher tax rate in the future rather than a smaller tax rate now? And it leaves the government open to raid it for free money or to force you to make "investments" in treasury bonds and the like. The dilemma is, as a young person where do you put your savings where they will grow. A savings account is a guaranteed loss, a CD is a guaranteed loss, an IRA is (most likely) going to be a loss. The stock markets are manipulated by those in power (both government and government-sponsored private sector). Real estate prices are low, but few banks want to loan money to purchase it and naturally I don't have the cash to buy it outright, plus prices seem to be still falling in some areas. Outside of creating a startup in a third-world country or being incredibly lucky there simply seems to be no place to put cash aside from in precious metals. Hi, generic lad, I'm really so impressed with your capacity to speak authoritatively in these matters. It intrigues me enough to enquire, if I may, as to your knowledge base? Please don't misunderstand me in any way, I have absolutely no knowledge of these things myself, only the intelligence to question and assimilate information that I'm presented with! I find your arguments persuasive, but have long since abandoned rhyme without reason so, if your findings have come from a long-time, self-taught, interest in this field, I salute you, and if they are more conventionally academic pronouncements, that too I respect, I'm just genuinely interested in the journey you has Most of it has come from various sources online, along with some of my friends who live (or have lived) abroad. Most of it though has come from deduction from economic statistics. Take for example the US inflation rate, which is officially measured at ~2.30% (see http://www.clevelandfed.org/research/data/us-inflation/mcpi.cfm) now of course that doesn't measure the real inflation rate because the CPI (Consumer Price Index) has been actively manipulated by using a "basket" of items to show that the US has a lower inflation rate. For example, rather than measuring the price of, say, a pound of beef, the meats section would allow the government to cherry-pick the lowest price of beef, pork, or chicken (see http://www.shadowstats.com/article/no-438-public-comment-on-inflation-measurement for some information about it) and using the older official method of measuring the CPI US inflation is close to 6% (see http://www.shadowstats.com/article/no-438-public-comment-on-inflation-measurement ) Of course CDs and saving account rates are different depending on the location and bank, but using one of the major national banks over here, Bank of America, it shows that their "featured" CDs have an annual yield of .45% (see http://www.bankofamerica.com/deposits/checksave/index.cfm?template=cd_10&context=tabpage_Rates_Fees ) and a savings account has an annual yield of .05% (see http://www.bankofamerica.com/deposits/checksave/index.cfm?template=regular_savings_account ) Since that is much less than both the official inflation rate and the older-style inflation rate, anytime you put money in a CD, you are taking a guaranteed loss in purchasing power. Of course there are benefits in saving, especially if you have any emergencies come up but I simply don't see how "saving for retirement" in cash, CDs and savings accounts as being a useful investment. I also enjoy reading ZeroHedge for economic news ( http://www.zerohedge.com/ ) even if it can be a bit alarmist at times I certainly don't know everything and I'm sure if I knew more about finance I could find a few bright spots to put my cash, but I know enough about history to know that when you print money left and right (like what the Federal Reserve has done see: http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/BASE/ ) bad things happen. Rome didn't collapse in a day and neither will the US and Europe but unless something major happens, I can see the west entering an even more sharp decline and another region taking over the spot that the west has held since the 1700s as the most prosperous and most free region. I get excited about an unusual butterfly passing through these days, but can very quickly tune into your statements! You obviously spend a great deal of time absorbed in this, I wish I had your knowledge on these things, as we are still living day to day, and have little understanding of the Big Plan out there. Really interesting stuff though, and we are, more or less, planning in line with the future economy that's outlined in this thread! Thanks for your response GL