DaveG38

Quote from Wikipedia ' Dawson left after frequently arguing with Daltrey[7] and after being briefly replaced by Gabby Connolly, Daltrey moved to lead vocals.' Of course, Wiki may be wrong.

OK. Thanks for that. Yet another variety in the collection!!!

Michael, Thank you for this. Does this mean that the larger diameter coins are thinner than the standard ones, due to the lack of collar, or is it that the flans were larger anyway?

Yesterday, I was happily annoying my bank by taking several hours sorting out my collection. One of the tasks that I did was to compare new and original examples of coins to see which I should keep or which ones are maybe different varieties. Whilst looking at my two 1717 halfpennies, I noticed that one of them seems to have been struck on a much larger flan the the other. The smaller is 25mm across, whereas the other is 27-28mm across i.e. noticeably larger. Also, the legend over the bust is as per Peck for the smaller flan type, but is aligned differently for the larger one. Does anyone know if this halfpenny was struck on a larger flan? Peck doesn't say anything about this, apart from the proof which this clearly isn't (not unless it is a well circulated proof).

I've now tried a new technique for me, based around my knowledge of chemistry, which seems to have worked. I mixed a small quantity of flowers of sulphur with water and a squirt of washing up liquid (Fairy Liquid for the purists), and mixed it up for an hour or so. Then I placed the silver coin to be toned in the sludge of sulphur at the bottom of the cup. Left it for about half an hour, then turned the coin so that the other side was facing down into the sludge. Then I monitored the toning as it proceeds, regularly turning, until I got the shade of grey that matched the other coins in the made up set. Washed the coin under clean water and dabbed it dry. The result was pretty good, with the fourpence toning slowly and nicely down to very near the other coins over a period of 5 hours or so. No funny colours or other effects, so now the set looks like it has always been together. For a control, I also placed a scrap George IV crown into the mix and just left it. The whole thing turned a very dark grey, almost black over 24 hours. I wouldn't recommend this approach, but the method I used certainly brought very good results for a one off coin. The only caveat on this method is that it is important to monitor the coin and turn it regularly, otherwise the toning won't be even from one side to another. I also wouldn't use this technique on anything really valuable, but for a cheap fairly common coin I was pleased with the results. All this method has done is reproduce, in a cup, the effects of sulphur in the atmosphere over a period of many years. The chemistry is very basic. The sulphur reacts with the Silver and Copper in the surface of the coin to produce the respective Sulphides, which are black. Hence the black tarnish to Silver that accumulates over the years. Simples!

A right motley looking lot!

All from this forum I guess.

Fabulous song. One of their best.

Not a bad replica compared to many I've seen.

Holed and in that grade and asking £349.99. What planet do some of these idiots live on? Surely, even the biggest coin collecting mug on earth would think twice about that?

I thought that Prince Philip still had a large collection - am I wrong?

Nice one. I hadn't noticed that comment.

But this date clearly didn't enter circulation. Perhaps the term business strike is a better one. In other words coins struck in quantity for circuation, not struck for testing or trial purposes that never got to mass production. For the same reason, I don't regard the 1945 silver threepence to be something I would collect, nor the Edward VIII coins of 1936. As much as anything my lack of interest stems from the lack of material, plus the lack of funds on the scale needed to buy them. For me all these kinds of coins are interesting curiosities that help define the history of numismatics and the nation, but nothing more.

This rarity problem is the reason why I only really collect currency pieces. That way, I can happily ignore these exotic coins, nice though they are, and at the same time, I'll never have an unfillable (is that a word?) gap. I can't think of anything more frustrating than being a dedicated penny collector, and by definition completist, and knowing that there are gaps I can never fill. Unless the unlikely combination of lottery win and the sale of these pieces come up around the same time - some hope!

Hideous design in my view.

From the surfaces shown in the website photograph, I'd say this coin is as bent as a nine-bob note. Don't touch it. Here's the website http://www.frasersauctionroom.co.uk/current_sale Any different opinions - its lot 130. Unless of course, its water damage, in which case still don't touch it.

Difficult to tell from the small photo, but it looks a bit too good, a bit too bright. Having said this, a nice grade example dipped would produce the same effect.

So, to raise the obvious quetion. Who IS buying at auction at inflated prices? The individual coins keep being sold as do the bulk lots. Is this new dealers investing in their stock? For myself, not a dealer as such, I can only say that I buy individual coins I want at auction, or I buy a bulk lot of high grade where I can upgrade my own coins and then sell all the spares on, usually on ebay. This generally allows me to upgrade at virtually no cost, since the receipts from the spares more or less cover the cost of the lots. Its not an exact science but broadly works.

Ah, I see. It wasn't what I expected when I clicked the link.

I'm still checking my examples and trying to sort them sensibly, so give me a short while and I'll PM you with the details.

Curious link when you click on www.argentumandcoins.co.uk

I agree that both the quantities struck and the problems of QC at the mint probably do mean that there will be many varieties of these coins. I've examined some 24 of these coins for 2016 so far and it is striking that there are variations in 23 of them. If I were to take say the 1967 penny, and examine just 24 of those from various sources, I doubt I would find any varieties let alone 23. Having said that, the variations I'm finding are not miniscule, at least not when set against some of the accepted predecimal varieties. For instance, the differentiators for some predecimal types often include the pointings of letters to beads or to spaces, and also the spacing of letters and colons etc. plus, sometimes, the number of border beads or the thickness of the rim. All of the distinguishing features found so far for the 2016 £1 coins are of the same general scale. On the obverse of the new coins, the truncation can intrude into the outer ring, it can touch the ring, it can have a small gap to the ring and it can have a large gap to the ring. Ditto, the diadem can intrude into the ring, touch the ring or leave a gap to the ring. Also, the spacing of the obverse lettering from the ring varies. What is curious though is that there seem to be 10 variations, so far, of combinations of these features. Usually, with varieties you find a set of factors which combine to produce 2 or maybe 3 variants, but here there are a much larger number in a very small sample. I don't think it makes any difference to the financial value of such coins. For the most part, they are worth £1 and that's all, but from a collecting point of view, it does mean there is quite a lot to look out for if you are a variety collector like myself.

So far I have found 6 edge types identified as follows: Edge 1 Milling to right and starts halfway right of centre of the shield Edge 2 Milling to right and starts slightly right of centre of the shield Edge 3 Milling to right and starts at centre of the shield Edge 4 Milling to right and starts halfway left of centre of the shield Edge 5 Milling to right and starts slightly left of centre of the shield Edge 6 Milling to left and starts slightly left of centre of the shield Apart from the fact that I have only found 1 coin out of 23 with the milling to the left of centre, thus making it rarer than the others, I have no feel for the relative scarcity of the different types.

Interestingly, I've studied each and every pound coin received so far. That's a total of 23 coins and the number of types found has been 23! In other words, every coin has been slightly different. This also doesn't include those types reported by other people. For example those where the main date of the coin is 2016 and the reverse dates around the rim are 2017.

Thanks for this. As you say, a useful book. I just wondered if I had somehow missed something regarding Charles II halfpennies, athough I guess if Peck didn't find anything then I'm not likely to have done.