Accumulator

How on earth do they arrive at an MS65 BN grade for this monster! (Check out the reverse)

Just appalling. I wonder if anybody has made a study of the dates and denominations which are toned in this way. Given that they are for the most part artificially toned, it seems to me to make sense to only tone relatively common, but high grade coins, so that any problems with the process won't result in a significant financial loss. In this way profits can be maximised without too great a risk. If this is the case, then again it lends substance to the argument that rainbow toning is an artificial process. Otherwise both common and rare coins would show this feature. Thus if RT was natural, I'd expect there to be a 1934 crown with it out there, but somehow I'm betting there isn't. Similarly, has anybody seen a RT coin with significant wear? After all, if the toning occurs naturally and a worn coin was taken out of circulation say 100 years ago, it should by now show rainbow toning. I accept that in circulation, you wouldn't expect it, but once this is no longer the case, a coin should tone according to the environment it's in. That should lead to some RT coins in fine condition, yet, I dont think i've ever seen one - please correct me if I'm wrong. Even if I accept the argument that collectors only want high grade examples and that such collectors store their coins in particular conditions that lead to RT occurring, I'd still expect to see some lower grade examples, if only where gaps are filled, due to the rarity of the date. Of course, if RT is artificial, then the reason for this is obvious - there's little price mark up on a worn coin. Perfect logic Dave, and I think we all know the answer to how many RT 1934 crowns are out there!

Nice 2mm. There are other differences too, alignment of letters with border beads and a shorter trident. There are only 3 basic reverse types (though lots of varieties) for the bronze penny A: Ship & lighthouse - Bun pennies 1860-1894 (34 yrs) B: Just Britannia - old head Vic, Ed VII, George V 1895-1936 (41 yrs) C: Lighthouse - George VI & Eliz 1937-1970 My view is that each series should be treated together for die identification, rather than splitting into reigns I've never really thought of it like that, but the 3-category split does make sense.

looking for more 1898s and 1895s so far found 3 varieties of 1895, the 2mm all appear identical but hard to find spares of the 1mm with intact border beads date differences on the 1mm quite striking, but is there a slight difference in the relationship of the drapery, waves and rocks to the union flag on the shield?? scans done together at roughly the same orientation correction lighting from the opposite direction shows NO difference in the 2 1mm reverses - top image is a 2mm still looking for another wide date(s) David, It looks like the 1mm examples (bottom two pics) have the 5 located at a different location in reference to the edge tooth! One is right over the tooth, and one is to the side of the tooth(gap). I've been through my 1895's and all are the 1mm trident and narrow date. Nothing very exciting there! I pulled out any 2mm examples long ago. I'd temporarily forgotten, but of course the 2mm die also has a much lower sea level. Here are my best examples:

Just appalling.

I've only really bought from Heritage in the US. They seem to get the documentation right, leaving me to pay the 5% on delivery.

I agree with the general consensus too!

I've got plenty of them and I'd be happy to look through for something specific if it helps? I'd rather hold onto the coins though.

I have to agree that they both look the same, based on the position of the sea against the border beads.

Looking at the avatars of some members on the PCGS forum, in that thread, it's clear where they stand on AT!

So, are GaryD and Gary1000 one and the same? I'm confused about that. I got the 'robbed while buying a pint' line (I took it to mean that pints are very expensive these days) but it was easy to read differently under these unfortunate circumstances.

You could be right. Certainly mine also has that curve, as did the original poster's example. That said, Cvarnz's coin is very 'open', so I'm not sure. It would be interesting to check Gouby later.

Sorry, I think that's a standard 3 there are subtle varieties of the normal 3, the open 3 is quite distinct having a curved rather than straight downstroke David, I'm not sure which of your photos (if any), you regard as an open 3? Two of them are 1865's. I've looked at CVarnz's coin and my own and they both look 'open' compared with the 'standard' 1863. I'm also not sure I understand your description of them 'having a curved rather than straight' downstroke. I don't have Gouby to hand so may be missing something?

That looks like an 'open 3'. The variety is not actually listed in Freeman. The ordinary 1863 is Freeman 42.

Only just noticed this thread. The metal around the rocks looks like it might have been damaged slightly, but otherwise it matches my own open 3 (although yours is a better grade!). Here's mine for comparison:

Michael, Look on Tony Crocker's facebook page, there is a pic of it there. I can't find mine right now. Thanks Bob. I did have a look at Tony's page, but I couldn't see it. Maybe because I'm not a friend. You are probably right. Here you go Michael....I got these from his page. Thanks for that, Bob ~ apologies for the inconvenience. That's easily the best 1877 narrow date I have ever seen. Mind, only ever seen 2 others, and they were both pretty much washers. That was a nice one. No surprise Tony Crocker has bought it Tony Crocker did not buy the coin, but he was one that was interested in it. Is it still for sale?

I noticed this too. A good example but the asking price seems a bit rich considering it's been cleaned. It'll be interesting to see if it sells!

Nothing for me at St James/Baldwins, but I did win a lot at Heritage over the weekend. Not the stunning 1869 penny though, unfortunately, but an 1805 proof penny..

That's very similar to my brass 1966 penny, Derek. I've no idea what flan was used.

I'm looking for one in UNC, if anyone has one for sale?

Wonder if there's any crossover with my bids? I won these pennies: 1826 proof, thick line on saltire Peck 1428 1861 6 + G proof Freeman 37 The third penny I won appears to be misattributed, so I need to speak with London Coins about it.

It's not a particularly attractive example and only a curiosity really. i would have thought about £400 ish. I have a 1966 in brass in EF condition, worth about the same.

Just received an invoice. I won all three lots, so that's good!

Same for me, won one but two others are at my max bid so I may have won them. I also have one lot listed at my max bid, so not sure if I won that? Two others are at lower than my max so I should have secure those. I tried phoning today but no answer.