Bernie

Yes - if the 1926-reverse-1927 is EXACTLY the reverse used for 1927, rather than the 1922 ALMOST reverse, that would make sense. You can't get away with mentioning four varieties for 1926 and not telling more! Apart from Spink, I can find no reference to the third variety. And what is the fourth? The low mintage figures for 1926 mean I don't have that many pennies to look through What am I looking for? perhaps Bernie meant 4 dies? Unless, there's a non-ME obverse with a 1927-style reverse but dated 1926? Another experimental die? The two new 1926 varieties are Freeman obverse 4 with reverse D, same dies as for 1927 pennies, the second is Freeman 4 with completely different reverse, similar to reverse C but with much longer border teeth. I have pictures of these coins but when given them was asked not to share them. Placing value on these coins, including the 1922 rarities is almost impossible, so again, £2000-£5000 ??? When the 1863 die 5 in VG sold for £23,000 ?? My enthusiastic bid was £2750, so who knows!!, without two bidders, the coin could have sold for less than £2000. Just to add another dimension to this debate about the 1926 ME penny, I've just acquired a fair/fine specimen, which is slightly different from the normal type and I wonder where this fits into the picture. It's definitely an ME, so obverse 4 but Britannia has a distinctly shorter thumb and longer index finger which ends at least level with the top of the shield flag, so closer to the 1927 type than the earlier reverse. Going by the pictures on Tony Clayton's site, the standard ME has the thumb and finger about the same length and equidistant from the shield. Mine also shows a wider gap between the thumb and shield. The other difference is that the gaps between the teeth on the reverse seem to be wider than on the standrad type, suggesting that there might be fewer teeth or that theyu are thinner. Does anybody know how many teeth there should be on the standard ME reverse? 187, I believe

Standard 1895 penny in a nice VF Standard 1863 penny in what's getting towards VF especially the reverse (rather too much wear on the hair though) 1861 penny in Fine, but you will need the experts in 1861 to tell you what particular die combination it is. Was there anything particular you wanted to know? 1861 penny is Freeman 22, obverse 4 with reverse D

I saw a 1954 last year which had to be a changed date or something else iffy about it, but I have to confess I couldn't see anything wrong with it and nor could the person (a dealer) who showed it to me. It could easily have been genuine. How do we know that is taken from the known coin other than to accept the vendor's word? Can we be certain the 'only genuine' 1954 is actually so? Actually, when it comes to tin foil impressions of coins, Lindt do a very nice SFr5 amongst other things. Yummy. Not sure about that. Whilst there are apparently accurate mintage records available for every other year and denomination, we only ever read that as far as 1954 is concerned, there is "only one known". Not even sure why that was produced or where it is now ~ can somebody enlighten ? Same applies to the 1952, of course. A batch of 1954 pennies were struck to test the dies. It was decided that there was no requirement to produce them for circulation and the whole batch were supposively melted down. One escaped the melting pot. The single coin escaped out of the royal mint. It could have escaped with the later 1961 pennies?? these foil impressions are definately genuine, including the 1933 foils.

That makes more sense. I can sympathise with that even I don't outright approve. You will know when bids are bounced off the wall when.... You think that you have been outbid, but when paying for your lots are told that you have won five lots not the three that you thought that you won!! In these cases the Wall was the winning bidder but you get the lot at your underbid!!

One of the dealers who uses this forum has a 473 and 475 on his website. I believe that the F474 is extremely rare,

I haven't managed to find one. I phoned Spink earlier today, they don't have the book in stock, but I did manage to find an old thread on here which gives JJerrams address as: PO Box 63, Stockport, Cheshire, SK4 5BU That's as far as I have got..... John cannot be contacted at that P.O. address anymore. Thank you for your offer but I have it already. I emailed him after the Christmas card was returned by the Post Office. I have his email address if you want it Bernie. Just drop me a PM and I'll pass it on.

I haven't managed to find one. I phoned Spink earlier today, they don't have the book in stock, but I did manage to find an old thread on here which gives JJerrams address as: PO Box 63, Stockport, Cheshire, SK4 5BU That's as far as I have got..... John cannot be contacted at that P.O. address anymore.

There is more likely to be a die 1 somewhere!!

Yes - if the 1926-reverse-1927 is EXACTLY the reverse used for 1927, rather than the 1922 ALMOST reverse, that would make sense. You can't get away with mentioning four varieties for 1926 and not telling more! Apart from Spink, I can find no reference to the third variety. And what is the fourth? The low mintage figures for 1926 mean I don't have that many pennies to look through What am I looking for? perhaps Bernie meant 4 dies? Unless, there's a non-ME obverse with a 1927-style reverse but dated 1926? Another experimental die? The two new 1926 varieties are Freeman obverse 4 with reverse D, same dies as for 1927 pennies, the second is Freeman 4 with completely different reverse, similar to reverse C but with much longer border teeth. I have pictures of these coins but when given them was asked not to share them. Placing value on these coins, including the 1922 rarities is almost impossible, so again, £2000-£5000 ??? When the 1863 die 5 in VG sold for £23,000 ?? My enthusiastic bid was £2750, so who knows!!, without two bidders, the coin could have sold for less than £2000.

Indeed it is fascinating, and the evidence for the 1922 coin is hard to refute. According to Spink though, there's another piece to the puzzle. They list an identical coin dated 1926, i.e. a penny with ME obverse and 1927 reverse. Does this exist too? If it does, then why experiment with both dates? Unless, as you say, tests were done in 1925 before the 1926 dies were produced, and then repeated with 1926 dies before 'going live' in 1927. We'll probably never know. The 1922 proof pennies were placed in Proof sets, the rest of the coins in the sets were dated 1924! These sets were produced and given to the South African government. I presume the idea of this gift was to show the quality of the coins. The Royal Mint produced coins for many other countries, they may have been touting for business. I don't know if the royal mint were producing coinage for South Africa at this time. The Story of 1926 dated pennies is another story! Until recently there were only two different varieties known, this has doubled to four!! in the last two years.

Bought into what? The only pictures I've seen here are of the (undisputed) 1922 with 1927 reverse. Of the supposed 1922ME, there has been no trace. I'd still like some answers to my questions about the whole reason behind it. UNLESS it was a test strike of the 1926 ME obverse using the only reverse die they had around, which would be the 1922 as the last date struck? Now THAT would begin to make SOME sense, and would date the penny to around 1925. So if it's genuine, that's my theory - a test strike made in 1925 before the 1926 reverse dies had been prepared, and somehow escaping captivity in the way that a 1952 halfcrown and 1954 penny did. Yes, that would be interesting - would prove if it was a fake. But I hope we can agree on one thing, even if it turned out to be genuine - it wasn't struck in 1922 or anywhere near. Here is a picture of the 1922 proof penny, Freeman dies obverse 3 with reverse C

Bought into what? The only pictures I've seen here are of the (undisputed) 1922 with 1927 reverse. Of the supposed 1922ME, there has been no trace. I'd still like some answers to my questions about the whole reason behind it. UNLESS it was a test strike of the 1926 ME obverse using the only reverse die they had around, which would be the 1922 as the last date struck? Now THAT would begin to make SOME sense, and would date the penny to around 1925. So if it's genuine, that's my theory - a test strike made in 1925 before the 1926 reverse dies had been prepared, and somehow escaping captivity in the way that a 1952 halfcrown and 1954 penny did. Yes, that would be interesting - would prove if it was a fake. But I hope we can agree on one thing, even if it turned out to be genuine - it wasn't struck in 1922 or anywhere near. Here is a picture of the 1922 with the 1927 type obverse and reverse. I have seen and handled this coin. examined it closely with a microscope and cannot fault it. The reverse of which is Freeman reverse C is identical and almost certainly the same die that produced the 1922 proof pennies.

The pictured 1922 F192A is brilliant! As far as I am aware (from the reverse picture) this is the second best known of this variety, the best is only marginally better.(need to see a picture of the obverse) Value could be anything between £2000-£5000 depending who bids for it! The dies used on this variety, Freeman Cat. obverse 3 with pattern reverse C* The other even rarer, so far unique, is definately real, the coin has the obverse Modified effigy obverse 4 with reverse die C, the exact die design used for the 1927 pennies. A third die pair exists but was only used as far as is known to produce two proof pennies. the dies used were obverse 3 with reverse C. Other sub varieties of 1922 pennies exist, versions of the more common Fr192, one struck in a ferrous metal, possibly nickel, another version with a raised dot in the centre prong of the trident.

The conclusions that I have heard regarding the last W & W auction is that their estimates are kept low to encourage bidders to take part.

Brilliant find!! Struck on a two shilling planchet, must be worth at least £500

After long consideration and communications with halfpenny experts it is my opinion that your coin pictured is an obverse 12 with reverse J. The difference between obverses 10 and obverses 11,12 is that 11,12 have a slightly protruding hair line on the forehead. The difference between obverse 11 and 12 is the front upper laurel leaf is longer and more pointed on obverse 12 than that of obverse 11 And here is a picture of 1874 obverse 12, showing the longer, more pointed upper front laurel leaf

After long consideration and communications with halfpenny experts it is my opinion that your coin pictured is an obverse 12 with reverse J. The difference between obverses 10 and obverses 11,12 is that 11,12 have a slightly protruding hair line on the forehead. The difference between obverse 11 and 12 is the front upper laurel leaf is longer and more pointed on obverse 12 than that of obverse 11

Hi Azda, What is the finer details on this coin to look out for? as i have one of these at home in slightly better condition than the one in the pictures you've posted here?? Victoria has a straighter back all the way down to the border teeth, the whole bust is larger, the legend is heavier

As stated before, 6+D, Freeman 29, week striking of L.C.W on reverse.

I'm still here, 6+H, as previously stated, Freeman 68, yes, rare in high grade,

I don't know if Paul(The wink)is still dealing, but he appeared at the auction of the Laurie Bamford collection of bronze pennies in 2006. Paul had lost a bit of hair, I spoke to him but didn't recognise him! a bit embarrasing! I believe he works for London Transport, underground train driver.

Auction Part 2 now in progress New pictures have been placed at CCC of pennies Gouby 1860T and Freeman 36, should help sell them!!

Auction Part 2 now in progress

I visited your website, very impressive, will bookmark !! The picture of the 1860T (lot 8) is highly unrepresentative of the actual coin. The scratches and scars that appear on the picture are not as apparently obvious and the coin is a chocolate brown colour. The area around where the (missing) colon dots should be is unclear. I therefore are attaching a picture of the area.

I visited your website, very impressive, will bookmark !!