Rob

Does anyone have any theories concerning the occasional appearance of pellets, annulets, crosses and other marks in the fields on pennies of this era? Whilst examples of individual dies are usually quite rare, the incidence of an extra mark(s) is not so. I'm intrigued but don't have an answer. Robin Eaglen & Robert Grayburn wrote an article on the gouged dies of Cnut's Quatrefoil coinage in the 2000 BNJ, but that aside, there has only been speculation over the past centuries from the likes of Parsons and Andrew. Thoughts anyone?

Book bidder. Mr Wood would have to have very deep pockets to have won the number of lots knocked down to him over the years.

Wood is a book bidder.

This is a moot point and I'm not convinced. It is also part of a much broader question. Rawlins was in Bristol making tokens in 1652 whereas Ramage was employed at the mint. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Rawlins Note the lozenge stops so characteristic of Rawlins' work. However, both Rawlins and Ramage studied under Briot, so the pair will undoubtedly have learned and practised similar skills and methods. Ramage also used lozenges, but I can't make a case for Rawlins ever using mullets. It is somewhat unhelpful that Ramage and Rawlins share the same initial for their surname. With Rawkins in France from 1648 to 1652 following the Civil War, there is no debate about the engraver of the 1651 patterns, nor the significance of the mullets. As the resident engraver at the mint for the duration of the Commonwealth, the R is unambiguous in the case of the early three pillars dies and those of the Cromwell farthings for the simple reason that Rawlins was known to be elsewhere, but from the restoration in 1660 things become a little muddy. The reinstallation of Thomas Rawlins as chief engraver would lead one to think that the R referred to him in every instance post-1660, but with David Ramage also employed as engraver at the mint and having similarly signed the dies with an R, the jury is out. The three pillars was a symbol of the Commonwealth and as such, unlikely to find favour in the court of Charles II. It is very tempting to say that anything with 5 pointed mullets was done by Ramage, but all the pattern farthings and the 1651 pattern halfcrown use both a mullet and a lozenge in the legends. This is not unexpected as a former pupil of Broit's. The early 3 pillars dies had an R below the central pillar. This P473 (which has both mullets and a lozenge on the obverse, as do the other 3 pillars dies) has a disturbed area in the field below the central pillar when angled best towards the light and this is commensurate with a filled die. Further clues may lie in the pattern farthings P474, 483 & 484. The first has a large bust with both mullets and a lozenge in the legend; the second has a smaller bust, signed R below, and only lozenges in the legend; the third uses the same smaller bust punch, but isn't signed and is a different die with the bust entered lower on the die and uses both a lozenge and mullets in the legend. If anything is to be interpreted from this, it is that Rawlins consistently used lozenges but not mullets. I also think it is reasonable to say that those with mullets were done by Ramage. If everybody gets their copy of Peck out , they can contribute an opinion. Discuss.

You might be able to order a copy from your local library if they operate in the same manner as over here. You would be looking at maybe £100 or so to buy - it has 28 articles.

Grandmother was clearly a realistic, grounded person. Recognising that they were worth peanuts and that nobody in their right mind would buy them, I consider her very astute in giving advice that they should effectively be sold only when all other fund-raising options had failed. Last throw of the dice, so to speak.

Don't have any reference books for them.

The shield rim is what drew my attention, along with the very thick groundline, the numerals, portrait size.........

That's a wrongun.

No, just a Cromwell shilling. The sale was mostly tokens.

Looks like a flaw to me. The last 7 could be over a 6 though

Agree with all of those. Good examples are no.2 the undated 20p mule and no.5 the H & KN pennies, which these days are probably as common as the 'common' types in low grade - everybody kept them..

Precisely. That's why they say hello, my name's David, or whatever. If they all used wrryyxxxdaa$$$!!!&***%%, I suspect it would default to what (Watt)? With apologies to BF.

Oops. Didn't even think to check the denomination. I was concentrating too much on the question re annulet and leaf issues. Must learn to multi-task

It isn't bronze that has been dipped in coca-cola or something similar? That gives a brassy look.

Thanks. There is a spot or two of tin pest and the weight is about right at 16.45g including ring and ribbon, with dia. 38mm and thickness of 2.5mm at the rim, less so in the fields.

Has anybody got a reference for the medal in this listing? Thanks. I'm assuming the price for an EF example will be a few pounds rather than the optimistic 200+ all in from the States? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-1911-Coronation-King-George-V-Queen-Mary-Souvenir-Medallion-Fob-Medal/142353333775?hash=item2124eb7e0f:g:018AAOSwnDxUdf5w Should add that it is struck in tin

This is a standard reference for the series and recommended. Although it is softback, they will do it in hardback if you ask, but will obviously cost more. This has the advantage of being more durable, decent quality and wasn't that expensive when I got mine a few years ago at something over twice the cost of the softback.

What sort of info are you looking for? Historical, die details, legend varieties, populations...........?

Or that it should be cut off at the neck.

Presumably keep the latin form given they are unlikely to drop the D G etc bit.

During this period, over 90% of the silver output came from Calais, which thus accounts for the vast majority of known dies. Whitton believed that annulet ceased in 1427, but Peter Woodhead was inclined to believe it ceased closer to 1430, which would give less time for the early dies to be left lying around. Whatever, it was in decline from 1432 which gives a relatively narrow window in which to use up the old dies. The existence of annulet/rosette and annulet/trefoil mules both ways together with this mule suggests that there was no clear cut changeover date for the various coinages, which muddies the water somewhat. To give an indication of the vast output, payments were made to the engraver Gilbert Brandeburgh for making 2713 dies for Calais during the period 1425-7 (gold & silver), 1405 dies for 1428-30 and 2187 dies for 1430-1, the last two only for silver. Hidden within these figures must surely be a clue. With Rosette-Mascle coinage more plentiful than Pinecone-Mascle, it would imply a good number of R-M coins were covered by the second figure, though obviously both figures could possibly either the preceding or following issues. It is reasonable to assume the annulet-trefoil dies were in the first period, but would also include some annulet dies if Woodhead is correct. The use of old dies may have something to do with the retirement of Brandeburgh in 1431 and the subsequent appointment of John Orewell as engraver. With £100K of silver struck at Calais between 1432 & 1436, but weighted towards the early years, this would satisfy much of the P-M output, with a few dies possibly included in the 1430-1 accounts. Production of silver at Calais from 1428 to 1433 was running at an average of roughly £3K per month, up from just over £2K per month on average in the previous four years

Buck 173 was one of these with Whitton dies 28/12a. This is from different dies. They are scarce rather than rare.