Rob

Colin Goode (Aboutfarthings) has promised a definitive list of 1672-1724 Why wait? Sorted 1672 1673 1674 1675 1676 1677 1678 1679 1680 1681 1682 1683 1684 1685 1686 1687 1688 1689 1690 1691 1692 1693 1694 1695 1696 1697 1698 1699 1700 1701 1702 1703 1704 1705 1706 1707 1708 1709 1710 1711 1712 1713 1714 1715 1716 1717 1718 1719 1720 1721 1722 1723 1724

There's a bit of evidence to be retained. Nobody has properly sorted the 1804 dollar and associated patterns into originals and restrikes. With the obvious underlying features of an 1801 8 reales, this is clearly an original Soho piece. For anybody interested enough to study them, there is a worthwhile project to be undertaken here. looks like its gonna get sore for someones wallet. 1,131 quid with a day and a bit to go It's about right given there are a couple of tiny marks in the field. Mint state I'd say it would be £1500-2000.

It isn't unusual considering what you effectively have is a double struck coin with the underlying 1801 8 reales detail showing through the second strike which is the dollar. If you had a strong strike on the 8 reales, the relatively mountainous detail would require more striking force to eliminate it. A worn coin might easily show no trace. All options are possible.

There's a bit of evidence to be retained. Nobody has properly sorted the 1804 dollar and associated patterns into originals and restrikes. With the obvious underlying features of an 1801 8 reales, this is clearly an original Soho piece. For anybody interested enough to study them, there is a worthwhile project to be undertaken here.

Thanks chaps. It looks like there is no hassle free solution.

Although it isn't too desirable to have hammered silver in varying shades of green, if the metal wasn't mixed well it can easily occur. Civil War coinage is more prone to it as is the debased coinage of Henry VIII and Edward VI. If they were trying to miantain a certain standard, sometimes it became necessary to throw a bit of copper into the pot.

Along with the CIVITAS EBRAICI S991 its the cheapest way into the Viking series - certainly the most affordable in that grade. We have to thank whoever deposited the Cuerdale hoard, otherwise they would be as expensive as the other coins of this period.

This is all marketing crap. If you really want to show the buying power of silver, why not use the 1980 $/£ adjusted figures? When the market peaked at $50.35 intra-day on 21st January 1980 up from its low of $4.50, then you can boast that it bought over 17 gallons of fuel. You might not want to tell the full story though, because it soon fell back to only buy 3 and a 1/2 gallons within a week or two. Or if you feel inclined, why not clarify the reasons why silver is going to increase in price by using examples such as this gleaned from wikipedia - quote "In April 2007, Commitments of Traders Report revealed that four or fewer traders held 90% of all short silver futures contracts totalling 245 million troy ounces, which is equivalent to 140 days of production. According to Ted Butler, one of these banks with large silver shorts, JPMorgan Chase, is also the custodian of the SLV silver ETF. Some silver analysis have pointed to a potential conflict of interest, as close scrutiny of Comex documents reveals that ETF shares may be used to "cover" Comex physical metal deliveries. This led analysts to speculate that some stores of silver have multiple claims upon them. On 25 September 2008 the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) relented and probed the silver market after persistent complaints of foul play.[22] In April 2010, Andrew Maguire, a former Goldman Sachs trader, went public with assertions of market manipulation by JPMorgan Chase and HSBC of the gold and silver markets, prompting a number of lawsuits.[23][24] In response to allegations of market manipulation from silver investors such as Max Keiser, Blythe Masters, Head of Global Commodities for JP Morgan, told CNBC in April 2012 "often when customers have metal stored in their facility, they hedge it through JP Morgan on a forward basis who in turn hedges itself in the commodity markets. If you see only the hedges and our activity in the futures market, but you aren’t aware of the underlying client position that we’re hedging then it would suggest inaccurately that we are running a large directional position."[25]" So you see, the market is invariably controlled by a few players who may change over time, but all have the same ultimate intention which is to get suckers to jump on board and buy their already overpriced metal in order to make a profit. Ultimately it will be the 'me too' want to get rich quick type of person who will end up the poorer. I think you are on the way there. If I have misread the situation and in fact you are operating a Ponzi scheme, I apologise for my stupidity in being unable to identify the type of scam involved.

What's rare about 1 out of 25000 Darwin presentation packs? I don't know how many WWF packs there were, but one thing is for certain - they're not rare. The same appies to the state quarters.

Thomas Carey was granted a commission to strike coins in the four counties of Cheshire, Shropshire, Worcestershire and Herefordshire in a document dated 22/5/1644. These are the coins currently assigned to the W, SA, Chester, 'CH' and Hereford(?) mints.

The best reference is probably Nelson's, 'Obsidional Money of the Great Rebellion 1642-1649', published in about 1905, but reprinted in 1976. The ISBN for this is 0 903681 06 4. No they aren't unique.

Could be writing at their house in France. They can disappear for a few weeks at a time to work undisturbed.

I'll second what Richard is saying. I'm currently working on the Carey commission output and trying to assign different issues to specific places and times. For most of the coinage the picture is reasonably straightforward, but when you have some documentary evidence (now lost!) that says 'Rude the Coyner struck coins from 277 ounces of plate at Hereford in Oct/Nov 1644', how are you supposed to assign that to a specific issue? First of all, 277 ounces of plate would only make between 500 & 600 halfcrowns, which was the main denomination of provincial coins struck. A survival rate of well under 1% immediately tells you that there may be one or two examples extant or possibly none, but more would be very fortunate for the researcher. Some have a better survival rate - e.g. the provincial unites were probably presentation pieces and so kept by the recipient implying a much better percentage remaining intact, but the majority of dies used across the period are only known from a handful of coins to three figures in isolated cases. As for the value of unique pieces, it is as always determined by supply and demand. There will frequently be a premium of sorts to be paid for a rare/unique type within a series whether common or scarce, but nothing like the premium attached to a universally almost unobtainable series. My Shrewsbury D23 halfcrown has a known population of 1. The reverse die, which is the rare bit, is only known from another coin where the die is paired with a shilling obverse, but that is in a museum. The premium for this coin is about a third over that of a commoner, but still fairly rare D22 in the same grade. The price however is only 5% or so of some indisputably commoner Scarborough pieces. i.e it is the mint rarity that drives the market. At the stratospheric levels of Scarborough coinage, there will always be a handful of people willing to pay a premium to get their hands on an example and then it's a case of who blinks first. The question of soldiers' pay is an interesting one. The daily rate for a horse and man was 2/6d, for a foot soldier and gun 8d to 1/- ish. It varied throughout the period. Most Royalist forces were mounted, so halfcrowns are the commonest denomination. The local population was levied and the contribution distributed amongst the troops. Coin would be used first and any plate collected made into coin as required. Consequently there are no fixed ratios of denominations corresponding to the rates of pay.

:lol: I know, I know - we think of a size then double it Poppycock, ask any good fisherman, he'd tell you categorically that you are wrong there! I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.

:lol: I know, I know - we think of a size then double it That'll be the lighthouse at Alexandria then. What a big boy, Mr P.

Would the extra price be anything to do with provenance, it's the coin featured in the Spink catalogue! I love it, and I guess if you wanted one, this would have to be the one! The Scarborough coinage must surely be an easy and worthwhile coin for the Chinese to get their hands on. Just wished I had 58k handy at the time for a safe bet such as this one! Not at all. How do you sell as genuine and to whom (your average ebay buyer aside), something that is known to only exist with one or two examples, the whereabouts of which are well documented. Things like that are virtually immune from Chinese interference. You also have the well documented provenance with illustrations going back 100 years. Again from the 1903 Murdoch sale catalogue, this coin.

A mintage of 10000 is not rare. 370 slabbed as Proof 70 might be absorbed by the US market, but you have to consider what collectors in this country are looking for. A slab selling on ebay for £1100 may or may not be indicative of the greater market - I don't know, but I've also seen flat 1797 cartwheel pennies finish at over £200 or the infamous no date 20p. At the height of the craze for these 'rare' coins there were 560 or more on ebay at the same time and still people were paying £300 for a coin that in reality is worth £30ish. That's the difference between the collector and the investor mentality. All those 'investors' who are willing to pay many multiples of bullion value for a mass produced commemorative issue will only make money if they can sell to someone for an even larger markup. You can exclude the collector from those willing to pay because they have seen what past issues have settled at once granny has bought a set or two and then sold at a loss. I wish you success in your investment venture. If you think the silver value is going to go through the roof, why are you telling me about it? You should be keeping mum and hoovering up all available supplies to take advantage of the certain rise in prices. It is all to do with people hyping up a price so that they can take a cut of the transaction. Nothing wrong in being a middle-man as that is the best way to make money - no stock, just a couple of contacts who you act for. However, the same thing happened in the 1970s and early 1980 when Bunker Hunt tried to manipulate the silver market. The price at its height was $50 an ounce, up from $10, or a bit above where it is now. It rapidly collapsed back to a little over $10 an ounce. So if you have a few spare billion lying around to manipulate the market I wish you well, but hope you won't be too p'd off when it collapses and takes your investment with it. Prices for any raw material will always fluctuate with occasional bubbles, but if someone is sussed trying to manipulate the market, it (the market) will know where to focus its efforts to destroy the imbalance. However, if you decide to hold indefinitely despite a falling price, you could at least end up with a few million ounces of physical silver to make more MS70 slabbed coins and recoup the losses that way. Patina Collection pieces anyone?

In the US there is a greater adherence to the grade given on the slab. It takes the thinking out of collecting/investment because a certain coin in a certain grade will cost so much without regard to the aesthetics of the item. Slabbing in itself costs money and this is recouped by the seller for more expensive pieces by upping the price. However, with the modern pieces and consistent conditions employed by the mints around the world, many of these pieces would grade or are already graded MS69 and will never be rare, so you have to consider the intrinsic metal value of a silver coin for instance. An MS70 strike has been deemed by the TPG to be a perfect strike, but it is only one person's opinion. Search slabs on this forum and you will find many threads where different opinions are voiced. Many collectors don't like them, but you will find that out if you read a bit. You might find you are at the bottom of a very steep learning curve.

Welcome to the forum. As you are obviously new to the hobby, what are your reasons for collecting, investment, themed or just a general interest? I see the list and notice that most are modern. Generally speaking these are best purchased in the after market and not direct from the various mints who have a rather large markup over resale value. Are you specifically looking at slabbed coins? If so, beware of the number dictating the price. In this country collectors do not attach much if any premium to a coin simply because it has been given a high grade by a TPG. Slabbed coins tend to be much more popular across the pond - this is a topic which comes up on a regular basis.

Should have bought the one in the last CNG sale. $23K hammer wasn't over the top for a Carlisle and that one was quite a decent example. As for Scarboroughs, most are in museums or places such as the ANA collection thanks to Norweb, so the rarity factor is magnified. I think on the whole though, 1 or 2 pieces is the norm for each denomination known. I saw it but his pockets are not that deep! I think he could go £8k-ish if anybody would like me to broker a deal. Looks like it will stay a gap in the collection then. I can't see one going for under £10-12K hammer. The problem is they tend to come in roughly the same condition because there was only a limited time they circulated, so I'm not sure badly worn examples exist. The only alternative would be a damaged example which would obviously be cheaper.

Only one for me in that case, the Alfred penny.

That would apply to anybody who has bought a single coin lot at a Spink auction, most being illustrated these days. So in answer to your question, probably half the regular posters.

Not to my knowledge. You just have to go on your own research/experience. The vast majority that turn up are Newark, with probably half of the ones you see having been holed for suspension. Scarborough is the rarest hence the seemingly high price. Carlisle is second hardest to acquire and if anybody has a spare I have a customer waiting Should have bought the one in the last CNG sale. $23K hammer wasn't over the top for a Carlisle and that one was quite a decent example. As for Scarboroughs, most are in museums or places such as the ANA collection thanks to Norweb, so the rarity factor is magnified. I think on the whole though, 1 or 2 pieces is the norm for each denomination known.

Not 58, but 30-40 is about right in today's market.

You've already posted a miserable face at the thought of it, so sell the rest and keep the Maundy. You won't regret it later. People always regret selling the good pieces but rarely the crap. Forgo a trip to the cinema or a packet of ciggies or whatever you spend your money on.