Rob

Taking the Shuttlewood coin described as bust 1 variety and Laker B, the bust on this coin is Laker B looking at the shape of the moustache and the shape of the tuft to the right of the crown facing, but the cloak and tie is more reminiscent of Laker A1. If these were two separate punches, it would suggest another intermediate type. Laker states that 6 busts are insufficient, but it is possible that his 9 are still not enough. I notice that Spink list both Canterbury and York with bust 1 (or var), though there was nothing in Brady, nor Buck. This appears to have been in the listing since at least 1966 which is the earliest SCBC I have. There it refers to North as the main reference for hammered coins and does indeed reflect his breakdown for this issue. I think the safest way is to use the reference that most resembles the coin in hand. Given the varying number of types listed in the different reference tomes and how the variations on that type are described, it must inevitably lead to some conflicts. e.g. Laker B, B1 & B2 are allegedly all variations on a theme, but B1 is a much narrower face than the other two. Using the cloak, A1, B1 and B2 are different to B. If I had to decide on a way of splitting them up, the easiest is probably using the stops, i.e. saltire, broken saltire and trefoils. The numerous portraits lend themselves to individual classification, though cloak or tunic type offers scope for grouping. Bust 3 is the only unambiguous type!

A common theme associated with dug coins is the harsh treatment they get. So many are horribly scratched to expose the detail. A little more patience would do less damage (and provide the finder with greater residual value). Soapy water and no brillo pad is ideal.

Test? For what? Spam?

I'm surprised you have got to the end of the copper and silver without encountering the gold references along the way! The most comprehensive tome for George III gold patterns is Wilson & Rasmussen which has 140 entries. The Plymouth sale in 2008 had another 20 G3 gold pieces that were previously unidentifiable. Sovereigns and halves are covered by Marsh. Peck has a number of gold patterns and proofs, but you will know about these having completed the other metals. In terms of auctions, then many major early 20th century sales had a decent number. Murdoch had the most 5 guineas at 43 of 47, though even second line sales such as O'Hagen tended to have a few (35 in this case). Obviously not all were G3. From the1970s onwards you had Douglas Morris and Barnes, Sharps Pixley, Norweb pt.1, Selig, King, plus many more, Wertheimer (1945), Nobleman (1922), the list is practically endless.

We're fine, thanks. The river is a good 100 feet lower. Just never seen it in this state.

The wife suspects the allotment might have relocated to the Mersey estuary by the early hours of tomorrow morning. River level at 6pm was 5.66m above normal. Previous high recorded was 4.59m above. The river has already been deepened and widened.

Somewhat unseasonal rainfall in the local area. http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/live-updates-rain-flooding-manchester-10652325 The gas explosion is where there used to be a bridge with a gas pipe crossing the river. There is footage of it going on Facebook, but I don't have an account to link. Pub washed away; Sinkholes in M62; and it has been bone dry all day here. The water fell 10 or 12 miles away. And for good measure, this appealed. https://twitter.com/Mr_Dave_Haslam/status/680773348679356416?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Merry Christmas from me too

I am using my old bookmark. Finds it ok.

I put a cross in every possible box. We will see what happens.

How big is it? The trays look to be too deep for coins unless the whole thing is little bigger than a metronome.

If you can learn deffo, then you might as well learn both definitely and defiantly. That gives you two words with which to bamboozle the general populace instead of using a 'one size fits all' term. I don't object to the occasional error because we are all human, but people could at least demonstrate they have the fundamentals in place.

Not overly impressed. I now get emails because I 'follow' threads (which I never did before). email overload is a problem without the forum adding to the list. As with Tom, I think there is too much unused screen now. If the screen is there it is better used than not. It's as bad as a pdf in that respect. I assume this layout is to make it 'up to date in appearance', in which case I would like to revert to using Hengist Pod's square wheel.

The much used term 'deffo' in order to circumvent any problems arising when trying to spell definately, defiantly, definetly, definitly (sic) http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2014/10/definitely-versus-defiantly-difference/

The three examples listed in Peck that weren't in a museum were the Lockett coin, which GC got from Slaney, and the other two were listed as in the Brooks and in Peck's own collection. The Alderley example was listed as ex Brooks and Peck, so the waters are somewhat muddied. If not the Alderley one, it would need a picture because you can't be certain that those are the only 6. He listed the pieces he saw, but that is rarely a full list. The Slaney coin is given as ex Brice, Montagu, Murdoch, Manton & Lockett. The Alderley as ex Brice, Montagu, Peck, Brooks, Noble and Entwistle. See where I'm coming from?

I've got spares for April and May, but no July - and for the majority of issues since 1998. If anybody needs anything please PM me.

VLARD ON CANT, so Cl.2-4b i.e. Richard I. Struggling a bit with narrowing it down further though due to no detail.

Gremlins today. I was going to edit to say that it appears to be a general problem rather than specific program - but it won't bring up the edit reply page. Thankfully reply is still working. Hey, whadda you know. Now it does edit.

Same here many times over.

There are a few books which are helpful for identification, but the quid pro quo is their weight which iincreases in line with the complexity of the subject. Brussels hoard, Mass sylloge, or any one of the numerous BNJ articles on restricted sections, one way or another you are going to have to carry around a volume or two if you want to identify the variants within the main classes. TBH Spink isn't that bad given you are probably going to have it with you for other references. Anyway, a parcel of 100 should ensure you are fully up to speed on a few classes, which means that you will know what not to buy. Just as important as looking for specifics, is knowing what you have and avoiding them too.

But they are only responding to the desire of the collector to find ever more esoteric varieties. It's a chicken and egg situation, but mostly chicken. Stop paying grossly inflated sums for minescule differences and this situation will go away. By all means include them as part of a detailed study, but as long as the herd mentality pushes up prices to silly (IMO) levels, then people will appear to satisfy the demand, or increase the price of existing stock to reflect the demand. That's business. The prices asked are determined by collector demand at auction, not dealers closely examining every coin and pushing the slightest difference as a variety - they don't have the time whereas collectors will talk, as on this forum when a new discovery suddenly turns into half a dozen known.

How did you count the edge milling? Used sellotape to ensure it didn't move and then marked off every 10 Sellotape on a coin??? Well, it will never be worth more than bullion. It only touches the high points of the milling to provide friction and it was necessary to prove the point. Just looking at it and pronouncing a verdict to a seller is not good enough without providing some evidence. They just think you are trying to pull a fast one. I suppose I could have used a marker on the milling to count off every 10.

Take a punt and say it is a case of copy and paste from the Roland Harris description, the populations having since been extended along with the highest recorded number. This happens a lot. Even going back half a century you find lots with exactly the same description in catalogues even 10 years on. e.g. a bulk lot was bought in the Parsons sale in 1954, and a lot with exactly the same eclectic description was sold when the purchaser in Parsons sold up in the early 1960s. Another glaring example was a Pontefract shilling in a Bonhams sale 10 years which didn't go with an estimate of 1300. As it was clearly a £2-3000 coin, the question was why? It had been plugged, It was then sold in the following sale, described as plugged but not illustrated. The link was possible with the copy and paste identical faulty references used. It then reappeared on eBay as being ex the first Bonhams sale where there was no mention of it being plugged. I advised the top and underbidders whereupon they withdrew.their bids.

How did you count the edge milling? Used sellotape to ensure it didn't move and then marked off every 10

I thought that Lincon and Winchester were quite difficult to find in general ... I considered Durham and Bury St. Edmund more common .... Depends on which issue you are talking about. Not all mints struck all of the time. Durham is quite common in later years where the local bishop was granted powers to strike coins, but quite scarce in the Norman period. Bury St. Edmunds comes and goes throughout a 300 year period. Winchester was the old capital of Wessex and a major centre. A few kings were crowned there, and unsurprisingly a good number of coins struck too. Lincoln is for the most part common, but there are still periods when the output reduced in size, leading to scarce issues and corresponding moneyers. Even London has its rarities This is the big drawback with the standard general references. There are many instances where the general description doesn't reflect the populations of the various issues concerned. Take Cissbury for example. In a collecting sense it is a single issue mint. 39(?) coins known, all bar one of which is a Last Small Cross with a dozen or so in private hands. The price given in Spink for a VF example from the mint is £3K, which reasonably accurately reflects the prices of recent transactions.There is a single Cnut Quatrefoil known which is in the BM, so what price a Quatrefoil should another one appear? Guarantee it will be more than £3K.