Rob

I know what you are saying, as I have seen this too, but there are a few possibilities here. If you enlarge an image of the 'upper serif', it is clearly not a cleanly cut feature, hence the question. We know that the last digit (and sometimes the 3rd) was entered by hand at this time, so we are looking at the profile of the 4 punch used. Was the crossbar on the crosslet 4 entered separately after the 'plain' 4 to create the variety? This should be verifiable if the crossbar appears at various vertical angles or lateral positions. Alternatively, was the 4 punch originally employed equipped with the cross bar, but subsequently broke to produce the 'upper serif' 4? Looking at the two 4s below, the second has a flaw developing from the 'serif' end, suggesting a plain 4 or broken crosslet 4 punch explanation. I see nothing in the LCA image to change that view. All the upper serifs I have seen are ill-defined and clearly of variable length. Not what you would expect from a punched character.

A question that needs to be answered as follows. People use the terms plain 4/upper serif 4 and crosslet 4. The latter is clearly different and unambiguous, but the former requires clarification. Is it a plain 4 with a sharp end that subsequently develops a flaw in the form of an upper serif, or an upper serif 4 that subsequently gets blocked? i.e does anybody have either a perfectly formed upper serif with a sharp cut, or a perfectly formed chisel ended plain 4? In the nerdy world of varieties, this matters.

It depends how you define a mule. Rarity shouldn't come into it. In the case of currency coins, traditionally a mule is a combination of dies, one of which is either obsolete or shouldn't be used for the issue in the first place. e.g the undated 2008 20p, where clearly it was the intention to date every coin, or say the groats in the last DNW sale which had a 3d obverse paired with a 4d reverse. So the question arises whether one or the other of the dies has clearly been superseded at an earlier date making its use anachronistic. Using this definition the answer has to be no because you have F528 to F530 using obverse 3 and F531 to F541 using obverse 5, F528 uses reverse B which was the normal one since 1860 (1874 excepted, but this say the introduction of the Heaton coins) and F529 to F540A uses reverse C. Clearly this was a changeover from one design to a slightly modified version of both obverse and reverse, but dies being used to destruction requires some overlap. To expand. ESC lists the 1711 shilling with the third bust as 'probably a mule'. This is reasonable as there is a distinct issue of 4th bust shillings dated 1710, but the R2 rating indicates a fairly rare item, so it is not clear whether the 3rd bust die was resurrected or if it was part of the natural changeover pattern.

The plain 4 looks like a blocked upper serif 4 to me.

I have and have seen many with crosses before the bust. Pointedly they are usually early issues, so there is certainly a case to be made for their defacement being a political statement. You don't see so many James third coinage with this mark. The earliest I have seen are Elizabeth shillings, so maybe they were a catholic thing started after the demise of Mary? Although the Civil War is regularly promoted as a War between the King with his 'Catholic' tendencies and the Puritan parliament, you don't see the King's face defaced very often, which given the divisive nature of war is surprising.

Who conveniently only strikes at Rhuddlan - one of the more expensive mints. And they are from the same dies with the same weakness on the inner circle below the M. Remarkable. I wish I was that lucky. My Rhuddlan from the same moneyer cost me over £600 and there are two here for a quid!

Probably because it is the commonest year for 'NEW PENCE'

The funds went to a good cause. Having established that the best one of this die combination on my list of acceptable and available examples was in fact bought by Exeter Museum in the Willis sale (1991), I acquired the second best D17 on the list as my example - ex P W P Carlyon-Britton, H W Morrieson, E E Yates, H M Lingford & A Barr

I've got one more (gVF) if anybody needs one.

I had a pleasant few minutes the other day discussing irony with Peter of India, who very politely informed me (half a dozen times), that he was not selling anything, but instead could he ask a few questions to pin down my lifestyle and buying habits in order to reduce the number of unwanted cold calls. After a fairly convoluted discussion and at the sixth time of asking, he also enquired whether I was going to answer any of his questions. My reply enabled him to close the case from his side. Shame his name wasn't Clive, or there would have been a bit more mileage in it.

1300 hammer

They aren't that difficult to find, though specific varieties are usually rare. James II halfpennies are a lot scarcer.

Correct If you don't want others to know something, you had best confide in ............. Damn, I forgot their name.

I don't know what has happened to it since I saw it and can only go on what I'm told. Maybe it has been looked at and condemned and maybe not. The person concerned wasn't short of a bob or two, nor do they collect anything in depth, so it would fit into a random selection quite easily. Maybe they kept it and wanted to stay below the radar. Maybe they sold it. Who knows? We all know there are many things that specialist collectors would like to know exist, but the knowledge is kept close to the owner's chest for whatever reason.

That would have potential if there was some way of tying current coinage to face value transactions only, but I can't see one at present. Actively removing misrepresented items would go a long way, but as John points out, it aint gonna happen if it costs eBay

EF or better. It looked no different to any other that had been taken from circulation reasonably soon after issue, i.e the coins in the parcel were all high grade, but not full blazing lustre and this was in keeping.

I don't, though this is not restricted to the person above. It's the incessant listing of (badly or deliberately misdescribed) crap on eBay that has killed off the fun. 12 or 14 years ago the British coins listed ran to about 3000 items at most. When I last looked it was well into 6 figures, most of which were 'very rare' coins from change struck in the last year or two, or washers that were hard to identify. eBay could do the world a great service by charging an up front fee with no charge for relisting and no final value fee. It would kill off much of the speculative s***e

Sorry to hear this.

No he doesn't. He has it listed as a mettle detecting find. I would suggest he is wanting in that department. Crap English, with all the full stops saved up for the end to save having to scratch his head wondering where to put them in the unintelligible mess he so carelessly constructed. This country is seriously going to the dog's (sic)

If it is any help in muddying the waters, I was shown a penny dated 1954 a few years back which allegedly came in a parcel bought from a lady. I have no reason to doubt the veracity of the claim and the coin did not show any obvious sign of manipulation under a glass. However, as a penny which was not available to purchase and not having the references to hand at the time it is impossible to confirm the dies were right. When I enquired about 3 years ago, nothing had been done with it.

What soil was it in? The condition is very good for a dug piece of tin. The surfaces don't appear to have too much corrosion, no serious tin pest, so the temperature must have been kept relatively high and the conditions anaerobic.

I think it would work much better with her facing left

Not seen it - do you have a picture? Could potentially be quite interesting. e.g. Do we have the twin peaks of Scafell Pike, or is it a case of Scafell and Great Gable with one bigger than the other. The other obvious feature must be the enormous backside that is East Anglia, which means that Britannia is sat on a correctly placed London Things could be a lot worse.

I've only got one in fine, so probably not good enough

What grade? You are talking anything from melt to four figures depending on.