TomGoodheart

"Thick mint frosting" "Deep cherry-red color" sorry but is this a coin or a cake?? While I pity the saps who had to sit through the other 3,000,000 or so coins to find it, this is surely just overblown cr*p? And as for developing spotting in the slab - I could weep I just hope Lockdales et al never get anyone to believe in slabbing hammered or I'm giving up! (Oh bother - sorry Rob! Kinda deviated from the topic in my anti-slab rant mode!) Yes, the market is a bit overblown - I blame the stock market. Hopefully as the weather cools so will prices (or then we may follow the US and be heading for more 'realistic' prices - whatever that means!)

Me too! It does look as if the last 'I' was never struck on the die. I've not seen one like this before - like Rob's IIX coin, it would only have existed in relatively low numbers (all coins would have come from the same one die). A nice find!

Please do. I'd be interested to see it!

E Gad Sir! No different from your avatar then...! (As we always assumed..) Come on everyone else! (or else I shall be obliged to remove the photo of me and the wife..)

Aahhh! That's the very one you gave me a lift in isn't it? I hope you get a decent price Chris.

Oh alright then....

Oh and Hi! Hussulo!

That just explains SOOO much Geordie!!

Surely North appeared in 1975, Rob? Anthony Wilson at York Coins normally shows tickets if a coin has an interesting provenance. If there is nothing matching on the website (I haven't checked in detail) he may respond to an email. They are certainly quite unusual being rectangular. Otherwise I think I remember seeing a book with coin tickets in it but 'fraid I can't remember the details. Doh! After a search I realise it was that very article I was thinking of - sorry!

I think that's a better idea John. You may want to take a look at the Market Trends section to the intro of Spink Coins of England 2006 which mentions this very thing. In summary the 'Cheshire' collection was entirely slabbed and regraded 'a la Americaine' before sale. The results were mixed, with high grade gold selling strongly but over 25% by value (particularly milled copper) remaining unsold. The item goes on to say that the problem lay with the mismatch between US and UK grading, particularly the inability of a numeric system to deal with production flaws such as double-striking, weak strike, ghosting etc. In some cases slabbed grade was taken at face value. In most cases however, the purchasers were sophisicated enough to take the true grade into account. Items which were unrealistically estimated were left unsold. While I can't commit him, I think everyone here would agree that Chris works very hard on his grading. Possibly if you got stuck on a particular coin he might be prepared to say if he thought your grading was way out or not (if you ask very nicely!)

Looks silver plated to me with original colour showing through under the marks where the mount has been. If you have a magnifying glass you might be able to confirm this or if it's discoloured for some other reason. Generally someone would have to be pretty insane to mount a rarity like a nickel 1/2d.

You don't say the age of the coins you have. I presume they are all milled but if there are any hammered I personally really don't think slabbing is much cop. The US system is still unable to cope with the 'subtleties' of hammered coins. Oddly I recently bought a coin that had been on sale in the States and received it with a PCGS label so it had been graded. I don't know if the slab was subsequently removed or if it had been left unslabbed (ie whether you can just get things graded?) Finally, I get reasonable pic results with a scanner (see Gallery) - might be worth trying if you have access to one?

That's why I like Chas I shillings! Most are clear enough to identify, there are plenty of different varieties and a Sylloge of the whole series to guide you. Easy peasy!!

Album in progress! Couple of niggles - I really wanted the images posted in chronological order (which is also in alphabetic order of titles) but they displayed in the order in which I posted them. Editing to add more info you are asked to repost the image. Be nice if there was a way to just edit the comment part. Otherwise it's great!! Thanks Chris!

Very nice! (Though my poor ageing brain is confused as there's an improvement each time I log in and I just can't keep up!)

In Spink's Numismatic Circular of October 2004 there's a (H VIII) halfpenny which reads H D G ROSA SIE SPIA and from what I can make out from the photo the E of SIE is at exactly 3 o'clock. Could it be an E rather than an H? I've tried scanning it but can't get a photo that would be any use to you I'm afraid. (Bear in mind Mike's coin is unusual in having the annulet at the centre of the reverse cross - hence the price)

I'm inclined to agree with Teg that it's a Henry VIII Halfpenny. I have dropped the pic into paint and reversed the colours and could be persuaded that I can see the ROS^ of the legend at 6 o'clock. Someone will no doubt correct me (please!) but I don't think that legend was used prior to old coppernose's reign. Making out the H D G is however beyond me so I could be wrong!! Thanks for the interesting challenge chrislamb! (And good guess Teg!)

Just lucky with my searching and hunches I guess!! (In case you're interested here are a few examples that put the idea into my head). Celtic Roman copies I certainly think it's a very interesting piece, both historically and numismatically speaking (and I enjoyed trying to figure out what it might be!!) Is this a new interest of yours?

Bloody hell - can't you just give us some nice saxon penny to identify!!? OK - I'm going to stick my head out here. Please remember I know nothing about this, but I like a challenge! Having looked through a variety of Trinovante/Catuvellauni units (which were my first thought) I couldn't find any paired metal workers. I tried a few Celto-Iberians but they all seem to have animals on the reverse. It then occurred to me to look a barbarous copies. I found this: which is a copy of an Imperial bronze. You will see that the figure on the right is stabbing or attacking the left-hand figure who is riding a horse. It occurred to me that your mushroom shaped 'anvil' could be the flank of a horse. Or I could be talking c**p. But you DID ask for ideas!!!

Does it have spiral groves inside the hollow side? If so, I have one the same, which I got from my Dad. It's a real penny, hollowed out. I'm not sure if there was a phase for making these things to include in magic sets (Dad was quite into tricks and stuff). I seem to also remember a suggestion that apprentices were trained to use a lathe accurately by being asked to hollow out a coin - I don't imagine it was easy to leave a shell of uniform thickness until you got the knack of it. Either way they crop up occasionally, but I've only seen fronts - I'm still hoping to find a 'back' for mine!

Cleaning is separate from tooling. Tooling is a process by which you use a tool (obviously) to cut into the surface of the coin to leave the design in higher (and sharper) relief than it would otherwise have been. While it does happen, like most mucking about, it's generally best avoided and in most people's eyes lowers the value of a coin. The coin shown does look a bit dull which would put me off. Whether it's been cleaned or not I'm not sure (it could be how the photo was taken), it's just that I prefer a bit of original toning where possible. While I quite sympathise with your enthusiasm to spend those pennies (we've all been there!) it's worth taking some time to look around to check out what's available. Only when you've seen an exceptional specimen will you have a benchmark for everything else. By the way, did you realise the coin you posted is actually milled (ie made by an early machine process?) For almost the same price of the coin you quoted you could have this hammered coin with (I think) rather more character (and tone!).. Lizzie 6d .. not that I'm trying to encourage you to spend more, just showing what's out there. I think with a bit of work you will be able to get some pretty decent coins within your budget. Good luck (and don't forget Charles I coins!) - let us know how you get on!

Hi Mitsuko - welcome to the site! I was just browsing and your post caught my eye. Q3 - I shall leave to others since I'm sure someone has an easily accesible list of 20c rarities. I'd have guessed however that your Granddad would have picked out any obvous ones and set them aside. Q1 - quite probably!! Q2 - the first English coins with dates are from the reign of Edward VI but these will be pricy! The first with arabic numerals are the Crown and Halfcrown, but this practice stopped in Philip and Mary's reign when the Shilling and Sixpence were dated instead! Things changed again with Lizzie, with only the Sixpence, Threepence, Threehalfpence and Threefarthings bearing a date. The good news is that Elizabethan coins from 1561 can be had within your budget. Sixpences are a reasonable size and worth a look. I'm afraid the larger denominations, including gold, are undated until you reach the very expensive provincial and siege issues of Charles I. The last hammered coins to bear a date are those of the Commonwealth (1649-60). Hope that helps!

OOh Wow!!! "absolutely no damaging scratches or unsightly creases"!!!! Lizzie shilling And no irritating 'portrait' thing mucking up the front either....!

Yes - contemporary (ie produced at the time) counterfeits produced to trick people into accepting a coin worth less than face value (since in those days the value was related to the precious metal content). And no - contemporary counterfeits aren't always worth less - they are after all interesting from a historical point of view. Some people collect them (I have a small collection of counterfeit Charles I shillings to accompany my real ones) and so, as with any 'collectable', value will depend on how common things are and how many people want them. A specialist collector might pay well for a scarce counterfeit for all I know. If you do a search (I use Altavista, but Google seems popular) for 'fourree', 'denarii' etc you may well find more if you're keen (!) (Doug Smith had a few pics etc on the site I found for example and goes into some detail about how fourrees were produced, which incidentally was still a method used for producing counterfeits at least up to the 17th century))

Another quote from Doug Smith - " From the very beginning of precious metal coinage a certain number of coins were made with a precious metal 'skin' over a base metal core. These 'plated' or 'fourree' (also seen spelled with one 'r' or 'e') pieces were intended to look like their solid counterparts and circulated until the core broke through betraying their nasty little secret." IE they are counterfeits, although he goes on to say he thinks some coins were made by the mint as fourrees (!)