Chris Perkins

Lindner, SAFE and Lighthouse, the 3 major collecting accessory manufacturers here in Germany (and indeed the world) all produce cleaning/polishing dips for all metals!!!! It's absolutely criminal, and they should know better! Everyone in Germany cleans their coins, stupid people. Chris

The first one looks like something has got trapped between the coin and die, certainly looks contemporary, and a shame it's right on the bust. Does look a bit brighter than perhaps would be natural, but the tone isn't unplesant. Second one looks cleaned to me, and probably recently, the tone looks too bright. Chris

I suppose the hairlines could have just been where someone rubbed it with something at some early stage, not necessarily 'cleaning'. I know it's newer than your area but I know that it's difficult to find a 1902 gold proof coin without hairlines because the mint workers tried to buff the matt surface when the coins came off the press. I always judge by the tone of the coin, and if you are not happy with the way it looks then don't have it! I suppose it is likely that people at the time just gave them a little rub to make them look nicer. I thought that haymarking was due to rusted dies. I know that dies were often used beyond what they should have been, and that they sometimes got corroded or generally scummy, causing incuse damage to the coins they struck. Maybe cleaning with acid would do a similar thing, but i think that's a bit Star Trek really, as the damage always looks contemporary to me! But then i'm no expert. Chris

Certainly, my pleasure... In the 1949 Book is says R2, which means 'Very rare'. It also says the same in the 1992 book. 1682 is also listed as R2 in both books. There are some undated CII milled sixpences that are R5-R6 including one on a thicker (possibly shilling) flan. The rarity scale in the books are as follows: R7 Only 1 or 2 examples R6 3-4 examples R5 5-10 examples R4 11-20 examples R3 Extremely rare R2 Very rare R Rare S Scarce N Normal C Common C2 Very common C3 Extremely common Chris

I am now a proud owner of the 1949 first edition 'The English Silver Coinage' 1649-1949, by B A Seaby ltd. No mintages in there, instead it gives each coin a rarity scale of about 1-10 and even shows patterns etc where only 2 or 3 examples are known. It's interesting comparing it to the latest 1992 edition. Some coins have actually managed to get more common over the 40+ year gap! I also have a 1949 Seaby/Spink 'bible' to go with my 1968, 1970, 1974, 1989, 1998 and 2000-2004 editions. I love seeing how certain coins have risen in value and like Sylvester I wish I could go back and buy...For example, a 1937 Sovereign for £12.00 (2004 Cat value £750.00!) Chris

You lot! Check these out: http://www.predecimal.com/bespoke_coins.htm Chris

Yeah, me too from now on. Have no time for this pointless argument about nothing imparticular. Oli, we'll have to agree to disagree and just try to be friends again, ok? You are most welcome among us, so please stick around, I am interested to hear your views on coin matters. You certainly know what your talking about with British coins and that is commendable. Chris

Roger, I don't that person came back to the forum, so feel free to email them. Chris

Apparently that flag was was adopted in 1949, I imagine your ancestors had a previous one? http://flagspot.net/flags/de-he.html Chris

The USA is welcome to see us as an older relation, of course that is true, but that has nothing to do with economies. The world and politics is all about economies, maybe that isn't right, but it's true. What is that new Avatar then? Chris

....In your opinion. You cannot make a statement like that without being properly qualified to make it. You are free however, to voice your opinion, and in your opinion Europe has a strange smell and so does it's single currency! There's not a single World War that my Grandad wasn't involved in, either as a 14-18 year old soldier or as a 39-45 year old soldier. Both of those wars were against Germany, my uncle William Henry Perkins (whose middle name I am proud to share) was on HMS Hood which was blown out of the water in 1941 in what was, and probably still is, the single most catastropic British Naval disaster, of which there were only 6 survivors (he was unfortunately not one of them). He was 19. They were British and fighting for survival, over 60 years later here I am living in Germany, the country responsible for my own uncles death. In a smaller way, like all of us I too am fighting for survival (and i'm also very much British), I have bills to pay, responsibilities etc etc. I often wonder how popular the British Euro sceptic (not the currency, the continent) attitude would be if those 2 wars hadn't happened and if there still wasn't unfounded historical distrust towards Europeans (particularly Germans) because of those events. At the moment Britain is very much part of Europe, both economically and or course, geographically, and that really is (despite some silly rules that get on our bloody nerves!) the best way forward. If you are Europe sceptic, ask yourself why that really is? Alone no European country can become a super economy (in fact the US/China/Japan and even Russia make the Uk look like a Minow), but together the UK can be very much an active integral part as one of the 3 richest, most industrial nations in the union. Trading with the US is important, of course, as is trading with China and Japan and the other major economies in the world, but they don't need us, they are already huge, and instead of being bolted on to an existing super economy as a little brother I would personally prefer for the UK to be an active part of the super economy and fast becoming world beater, Europe. In your own words please, argue with that!

Hello Roger, Welcome to my Forum, it's nice to have someone else who knows their stuff in our midst. I think Bob was refering to the silver coin shown above. Chris Perkins www.predecimal.com

Would you consider selling part of it to me if I could visit your with ready readies in February. Email me your phone number if you like and we can talk in more detail about what you have. Chris Perkins www.predecimal.com cp@predecimal.com

Hello, Well I would imagine you may get £1000 on ebay if you were lucky enough. And that's probably more than i would pay, but I imagine having a previous ebay presence would be a big help in selling it. I don't know many people that would hand aver £1000 to someone in sunglasses and with a big fat (0) next to their name. I'd be pleased to list it properly, photograph it, describe it, take the payment, send it, and then settle up with you for a 10% commission (all in, including ebay fees and everything). Where about are you too, I'd like to know what else you have in the mountain? Chris www.predecimal.com

If indeed it was any! No problem Chris

Well I imagine it would be impossible to say in terms of todays money. A groat was 4 pre decimal pence, which equates to 1.6667 modern British Decimal Pennies. So that makes a groat worth, what about 2.82 US cents now. A sixpence is worth 2.5 modern British pennies and a florin is worth 10 modern British pennies. Ducats are not British so I don't know about them. But when groats, florins etc were made they represented a lot more money than a few US cents, just as 200 years ago a US cent had much more value than a modern US cent. Also throughout the years, the value of denominations changes, one year you can buy a loaf of bread for a penny, 10 years later the same loaf of bread (but a new one, of course!) may cost 6 pence due to inflation. In real terms though a florin may have been as important in days gone as a US$5 note, and a sixpence as a 50c coin! So in short, it's a funny old question to want to know the answer to, and damned hard to work out! Chris www.predecimal.com

Yeah, you're probably right. The German Euros do have something slightly interesting in that they have different mint letters. Those mints and mint letters have been pretty much unchanged since the days of the little German kindoms and probably before. I think it was good that they stayed on the Euros, even though they don't mean that much. Chris

Funny you should say that old chap, I got 3 bank fresh 2003A German 1 Euro coins today. I know they are only monopoly Euro money, but who knows, someone may want to buy them from my great great grandson in 170 years. Chris

You mean, you want to know what face value those demoninations would represent in US$? Even though they are no longer in use. Or you want to know the value of some of those coins, with specific dates as collectors items now? Chris www.predecimal.com

Anyone can adopt someone elses point of view, it's even possible to change whose point of view you adopt daily, even hourly. I wonder if Mr Morris really sums up exactly your views, or if Mr Morris is just the person you happen to believe today. I'm afraid I don't believe that you could have answered the question like that yourself. With statistics you can prove anything, and to a degree with 'other peoples arguments' the same is true. Chris

It matters to me rather a lot, becuase those are the words of an American, and while you clearly share his views, you didn't make that point, he did, in May of this year. Chris

Now let's here something in your own words Oli, rather than a passage from Dick Morris 'Campaign strategist' for Bill Clinton! Chris

All sounds very romantic, and great it'd be nice, but it would make trade with all the other decimal countries much harder, if decimal measurements make sense in Science then why don't they make sense in money? It's so easy counting in 10's and 100's. Imagine if I had to sell a coin for 5s 6d to an American, for a start he'd probably be put off, but if he wanted it, it would be much more difficult to convert GBP into other world currencies. We have to move with the times and ok so predecimal was great, my whole domain name is named after it, but unfortunately we cannot go back now. I wish we could get proper pints of milk and buy our sugar by the pound. I certainly think that rendering imperial measurements 'illegal' was absolutely ridiculous! I am against the Euro also, as I think I have said before...The UK has a strong ecomomy and the full control over it should stay in our hands. Why is our future with the US? I also consider myself British, but we can't just pretend our neighbours are not there, even though they are all overseas, and I agree and encourage trade with both America and Europe, but Europe is just 30 miles away. America shares a language (in the most part ) but is thousands of miles away. America is it's own economy, it doesn't need us. It's foreign policies, which are sometimes a little selfish demonstate that is doesn't need anyone. Which is of course absolutely true right now. The labour party have recently removed most of the rights for the heridary peers in the house of lords, and the Queen has less rights than previous monarchs, that's a shame and ends a lot of traditions. I'm very fond of the Queen and think she does a great job as the Queen, certainly by bringing in so much money in the form of tourism, much more than she could spend. And of course representing GB abroad, as she does in a faultless way. But in this day and age it is only natural that the rights of the born privaledged are vanishing, it's the way society evolves (or should that be re-evolves), and democracy is the only way the public will be satisfied. Even though we all know most politicians happen to have gone to the right schools, have the right family and friends and get where they are because of the political scene and priveledged position most of them were born into! Just like a monarchy! I'm with you on the fact that as British people we should be proud of our country, and that all people should be proud of their own countries. Yes lets teach the school children the national anthem, that'd be a good idea. Fly more union jacks, definately. In my little British made car in Germany I sometimes fly my British flag out the sun roof (when I'm quite sure there are no serious Neo Nazis around that might want to really hurt me!). In fact I have only ever owned British made cars. When I see a Toyota with a big Union Jack in the window, I think the driver must be completely missing the point! Oli and Sylvester, you are young (I mean i'm only 25, but anyway) and whether your dates of birth in the information area are true or not, I can tell you are young. I was very much like that too not so long ago. The things you see around you get you down, that's clear, but I would be very suprised if over the next few years your opinions don't mature slightly, you'll think the same about some things, but you will realise a lot of things, and you will realise that your line on certain issues was not sometimes the right one. Please don't think I'm patronising you, I'm on your side! Lets just carry on this discussion in a gentlemanly manner. I think you'd also find that most Americans are a little patchy after the first verse of 'Star spangled banner'! Basically, whoever is in power, whether it be the Queen or a Prime minister from any party, you cannot please all of the people all of the time, and the leader has to be answerable to someone. In the case of democracy it is the electorate (although often in a totally unfair way). Anyway bed time for me now. Chris www.predecimal.com

Oli, No, I'll keep them there unless people tell me they are offended. I'll only censor the obscene, and perhaps that was extreme, but it wasn't obscene. I'm quite relieved your next post was quite sensible! Point me to a link about the new EU constitution, I want to see what it says about the current nations heads of state. Would be bad, and ironic if her majesty, The Queen of England, who is head of state of all the commonwealth countries, was not actually head of state of England! The Asylum problem needs to be solved at the source, somehow, there is no easy answer, it is natural for people and families (whether they have TB or not) to want the best for their children and a future for themselves. As long as they have no future where they are, they will keep coming. I was also under the understanding that to join the EU any potential member country has to prove it has a rubust enough economy and has strong enough laws, and a good human right record etc, so surely with EU membership and the economic growth and investment that that will bring, most of those people in the new countries will want to stay where they are? From personal experience to become an official resident in Germany, for another EU member you have to prove you have a job to go to or a profession at least, you also have to have somewhere to live and the landlord has to sign something to say you live there. If you want to live in Germany and are from outside the EU, it depends exactly where you're from but with most counrties you have to prove you can speak German to a certain standard and from a few countries you even have to pass an aids test before you're allowed to move here. I imagine you'd like to see similar stricter rules in the UK too Oli? I think with a single EU wide asylum policy that would be the case, it would also stop asylum seekers shopping for a country and force them to stay in the one they entered or go back. Anyway, keep it clean and try not to offend! Chris

It seems you have quite strong views Olli, and i'm not sure how heated I want the forum to get on non coin related matters! Just to pick up on your last point first...I am British, not a continental European, I just happen to live in continental Europe, I still own a house in Kent, have a family in the UK and will always be British. I always stick up for the British point of view (when I can) and am personally always ranting about how things are better in the UK! I don't want to get into the Iraq situation, I do of course have views on it but will not discuss them in this public fashion. Assylum seekers, ok, clearly a very sensitive subject for all British people and in fact it is very much a Europe wide issue. I have seen lots of programmes on German TV about various coutries in Europe and their policies towards the assylum seeker situation. I do believe that any people from anywhere, if they can offer something to the country in which they reside should be allowed to stay. The problem at the moment is the massive scale of human trafficing that goes on, the organised crime that brings fake assylum seekers into Europe and the UK, the fact that these fakes get benefits from the state is of course resented, the fact that many of them are involved in criminal activity gives the geniune hard working people that simply want to set up a life in a country where they won't get murdered a very bad name. It also seems a lot of these people head straight for the UK, I do believe that there should be a Europe wide assylum policy, the rules should be strengthened so that fake assylum seekers or economic migrants are not allowed to stay. With a Europe wide assylum policy the people would also not be allowed to leave the EU country in which they first entered, and would be checked out there before they were allowed to stay or sent back. The UK's policy needs to be strengthened too, didn't i hear that the home secretary had recently taken steps? Have you ever been to Romania Olli, or Eastern Europe? On what basis can you justify calling the population of Romania and other European countries a rabble? There are poor people everywhere and most of them just want to be able to bring up their family safely and go about their normal lives. They mean you no harm and they are mis represented. These people have not had the advantages that we have and they need support and help to make their own countries nice places to live, the problem must be rectified at the source and I am frankly outraged that you would support murdering innocent people that have probably just sold a kidney in order to be smuggled to a country in order to live a proper life and raise their family securely. A strong deterent is one thing, but blowing people up is quite another. I don't think that continental Europeans want to destroy British culture or independance, nor are they going about it, the EU is about economics. The EU politicians will not ban Cricket and make you eat Frankfurters and Frogs legs! I was once afraid of Europe in a similar fashion to you, but I learned and listened and realised that the only way the UK can be strong is to work with Europe. We don't have to change our way of life, we just have to pull together a bit. I really feel that if you want to carry on with your stated views on this subject that you should perhaps do so via email and not in a public forum. Chris www.predecimal.com