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Hi I have just joined the forum because I would like to ask a question concerning the 1882 No H penny. If a coin has all the details below and no Heaton mint mark is it certain to be a London minted coin? Obverse: - R & I don’t touch. - the tuft of hair which is not on the Heaton minted examples. - The hair ribbon which does not terminate in a point like the heaton coins. - Victoria has a hooked nose compared to the straighter bridge of the nose displayed on the Heaton coins. Reverse: - 186 border teeth with 13 teeth between 1 and 2. - thinner waist/ trident shaft. many thanks in advance.

Someone has took a genuine 1820 coin and altered it to 1817 then cast it i assume. Anyway....I found the paper's that Gary Oddie wrote if anyone is interested. They are all on the link here...https://britnumsoc.blog/2021/10/09/counterfeit-shillings-of-george-iii-1816-1820-iv-a-contemporary-mould-revisited-gary-oddie/

I assume there must be a known genuine die of this overdate? Must be cast surely. Then again that makes no sense. Why overdate it with an older date. Very odd. I wonder if the word got out that 1820 shillings where being counterfeited thus giving extra scrutiny to coins with that date so the forger altered the date to take some of the scrutiny away 🤔

Sad news about Gary. I never met him but heard lots of good things about him. He was born in the town i reside in. I just dug my shilling out as this post had sparked my interest. Never even noticed it before but it's got a clear overdate. 1817 over 1820. That's something i have never seen in a counterfeit coin before.

Yes, Gary Oddie passed away quite recently. @seuk is Peter Poulsen. Most of his website text has been archived, but unfortunately none of the images: web.archive.org/web/20150825194438/http://www.steppeulvene.com/index.george_iii.html I hope he's alright.

Just found an obituary for him i think so that's a no go on any further research. Passed away last February.

Gary Oddie has written a few papers about them. He was doing a study of them. Not sure if he still is but his old paper's should still be online somewhere.

It maybe - I am not sure I would know how to find out. The link I have is this: http://www.steppeulvene.com/index.george_iii.html Based on the similarities I suspect this may have been @seuk's site.

I think I remember that. Is it on the wayback machine/internet archive?

This one definitely looks brass with a silver wash, given its state I decided a clean wasn't going to harm its value too much!

There was a website for these, which I have bookmarked, but when I tried to visit it just now I think it has been deleted.

@seuk used to specialise in these, and had quite a collection I believe. If my memory serves me correctly, he either had, or was putting together, a book and/or website?

Yes i agree it has to be spurious. The dates not lined up properly and the G & R in Geor are out of proportion with the other letters. I have a contemporary forgery silver washed brass shilling dated 1817.

Certainly.

Welcome to the forum Jill. Thats a really nice find. Don't often see that sub class turn up. Congratulations !

Personally I'd lay the coin on the (transparent) ruler on the coin with the zero point at the coin's widest point. I'd also use the mm scale rather than inches.

wow! 😲 what a find... well done you.👍

Here is a lovely example of 5i that i found in the hydburn and ribble valley area whilst metal detecting

I’m away this weekend, but great news that you can provide a weight…tbh measuring the dimensions of a coin with a plastic ruler is satisfactory enough for ID. In the early days I bought a fancy tool but, given the variable sizes for any given denomination, and that they are rarely round, the weight is generally sufficient, so it was never that useful. It may be useful with milled coinage, but rarely! Save your money and buy another coin instead!

revisiting this topic...... I am able to confirm they weigh 1.2 grms each, rather than invest in a vernier measuring tool is there a better ruler that can recommended ??? hopefully the additional phots may be of help towards finalising their identification....and ..are they Edward I ?

Many thanks Paddy and Coinery As far as records go – it appears money started to be officially defined by weight of metal in Iraq about 2,150 BC. The retreat from that definition perhaps started in Britain in 1914, when banks stopped changing notes for sovereigns. So understanding weight standards is basic to understanding what money was for 97% of its history. If you do not understand the weight standards, you just cannot understand the real history of money. That is why I think it is important. It is comforting to believe there are “a small number of academics willing to invest the time in this”, who are perhaps keeping an eye on the situation for us all. Indeed that was still sort of true 25 years back. But those guys were fighting a loosing battle then and anyhow, they are, as far as I can discover, all now dead. There are today way more professional academics than there ever were before. They generally refuse to discuss these matters, a sizeable sub-group will turn hostile and sarcastic if they are raised. I am afraid this seems a straightforward Cui Bono situation to me. The great majority of professional academics are paid by states, and all states have now adopted “managed money” - which they print at will. ‘He who pays the piper calls the tune’. I am an old guy myself now, and am pretty much fixed on a search for anyone at all out there who will try to understand these matters, and will stand up and debate them. I tried looking amongst professional academics. It was a poor plan. Am I really alone here in seeing the Curator of Coins at our British Museum holding a Charles I pound coin and saying “it is a pound weight in silver” ? All the Best Robert Tye PS in case of interest - for my series of videos on Youtube - look for “A History of Troy Weight” Playlist:

could you show both sides in full size, would be nice to see. 👍

To be fair, the chaos doesn't ever seem to subside. Sometimes you need to part ways with it for a while to regain the will to try and overcome it.

Its so scabby I weighed it. Its only a little bit light 5g exactly. Fake 100% but I think contemporary rather than modern as it came from a neighbours fathers estate a few years ago.