Brand new to collecting

[Colin G. 147]

There is/was a similar scheme involving Natural Health products (vitamins and other supplements). As you say Will, these are not pyramid schemes per se i.e. they are perfectly legal. I looked into joining this other scheme (this was in the 90s) but after reading the literature thoroughly, I concluded that it involved more time and effort and recruitment than I was prepared to put in.

No matter how it is dressed up, it is pyramid selling, it relies on additional layers of sellers beneath you for you to recoup your costs. The people at the top of the tree, and the odd good seller will make their fortune, and use the evidence to convince those further down to join. Inevitably it doesn't take that many layers before the numbers of people required to continue the pattern becomes mammoth. The last ones to hop on board have no chance of convincing others and the bubble bursts leaving them with products for which they have overpaid. The names may have changed but it is the same principles that have been used in previous schemes.

[1949threepence 3,366]

Dear Will,

My name is Dr Zunami Bumambi,

I am the leading medical detective for the armed forces of Nigeria, due to an unforseen curcumstance, my uncle, the Prince of Zimbabwe has been arrested in Somalia. Before his arrest, he deposited $56,000,000 USD in the car boot of a taxi.

If you could help me recover these monies, I will compensate you with $4,000,000 USD.

All I need from you is your name, address, bank account details, social security number, telephone number, mothers maiden name and your shoe size.

Regards

Dr Zunami Bumambi.

lol ~ reminds me of the e mail I received "from the desk of Prince somebody or other of Nigeria", promising me $3 million for a £500 registration fee. He quoted a London address which, when I google earthed it, turned out to be a disused petrol station in Hendon

Will, I think you're fighting a losing battle here. All of the silver surfers here would much rather blow any spare 000's on micro varieties of bun pennies than bullion, whilst those of us below, say, 40 have no money - losing jobs, no pay rises, commuting costs going through the roof, families to feed, no pensions etc. Maybe try a hedge fund managers forum??

Well from one 34 year old to another of similar age, I presume you will be taking advantage of this magnificent offer (for a small fee of course ) In the meatime, take a peek at their promo video on you tube ~

FÜ%k, quick, where do i sign up. This guy has converted me with his modified video and his bullshit spiel..............

here is is again spouting armageddon

Yeah, worryingly, the same guy spouting that cobblers, is seen again

telling us how to buy silver coinage with ISN.

More reasons not to join it.

[Peckris 579]

There is/was a similar scheme involving Natural Health products (vitamins and other supplements). As you say Will, these are not pyramid schemes per se i.e. they are perfectly legal. I looked into joining this other scheme (this was in the 90s) but after reading the literature thoroughly, I concluded that it involved more time and effort and recruitment than I was prepared to put in.

No matter how it is dressed up, it is pyramid selling, it relies on additional layers of sellers beneath you for you to recoup your costs. The people at the top of the tree, and the odd good seller will make their fortune, and use the evidence to convince those further down to join. Inevitably it doesn't take that many layers before the numbers of people required to continue the pattern becomes mammoth. The last ones to hop on board have no chance of convincing others and the bubble bursts leaving them with products for which they have overpaid. The names may have changed but it is the same principles that have been used in previous schemes.

That's what I was trying to say. I think "recoup your costs" could be replaced with "make real money" but otherwise you are spot on. It relies on you being emperor at the top of your own pyramid, raking in the commission from your 'subjects', while you yourself are in turn a vassal of someone higher up the tree than you, who is raking in even more. Like you said, a pyramid. A legal pyramid, but a pyramid all the same.

[Rob 3,002]

Dear Will,

My name is Dr Zunami Bumambi,

I am the leading medical detective for the armed forces of Nigeria, due to an unforseen curcumstance, my uncle, the Prince of Zimbabwe has been arrested in Somalia. Before his arrest, he deposited $56,000,000 USD in the car boot of a taxi.

If you could help me recover these monies, I will compensate you with $4,000,000 USD.

All I need from you is your name, address, bank account details, social security number, telephone number, mothers maiden name and your shoe size.

Regards

Dr Zunami Bumambi.

lol ~ reminds me of the e mail I received "from the desk of Prince somebody or other of Nigeria", promising me $3 million for a £500 registration fee. He quoted a London address which, when I google earthed it, turned out to be a disused petrol station in Hendon

Will, I think you're fighting a losing battle here. All of the silver surfers here would much rather blow any spare 000's on micro varieties of bun pennies than bullion, whilst those of us below, say, 40 have no money - losing jobs, no pay rises, commuting costs going through the roof, families to feed, no pensions etc. Maybe try a hedge fund managers forum??

Well from one 34 year old to another of similar age, I presume you will be taking advantage of this magnificent offer (for a small fee of course ) In the meatime, take a peek at their promo video on you tube ~

When everyone has signed up, who are you supposed to sell to?

[1949threepence 3,366]

There is/was a similar scheme involving Natural Health products (vitamins and other supplements). As you say Will, these are not pyramid schemes per se i.e. they are perfectly legal. I looked into joining this other scheme (this was in the 90s) but after reading the literature thoroughly, I concluded that it involved more time and effort and recruitment than I was prepared to put in.

No matter how it is dressed up, it is pyramid selling, it relies on additional layers of sellers beneath you for you to recoup your costs. The people at the top of the tree, and the odd good seller will make their fortune, and use the evidence to convince those further down to join. Inevitably it doesn't take that many layers before the numbers of people required to continue the pattern becomes mammoth. The last ones to hop on board have no chance of convincing others and the bubble bursts leaving them with products for which they have overpaid. The names may have changed but it is the same principles that have been used in previous schemes.

That's what I was trying to say. I think "recoup your costs" could be replaced with "make real money" but otherwise you are spot on. It relies on you being emperor at the top of your own pyramid, raking in the commission from your 'subjects', while you yourself are in turn a vassal of someone higher up the tree than you, who is raking in even more. Like you said, a pyramid. A legal pyramid, but a pyramid all the same.

You apparently get a $40 commission for each new member you can bring in. Which is presumably why Will was here touting for business.

[Peckris 579]

There is/was a similar scheme involving Natural Health products (vitamins and other supplements). As you say Will, these are not pyramid schemes per se i.e. they are perfectly legal. I looked into joining this other scheme (this was in the 90s) but after reading the literature thoroughly, I concluded that it involved more time and effort and recruitment than I was prepared to put in.

No matter how it is dressed up, it is pyramid selling, it relies on additional layers of sellers beneath you for you to recoup your costs. The people at the top of the tree, and the odd good seller will make their fortune, and use the evidence to convince those further down to join. Inevitably it doesn't take that many layers before the numbers of people required to continue the pattern becomes mammoth. The last ones to hop on board have no chance of convincing others and the bubble bursts leaving them with products for which they have overpaid. The names may have changed but it is the same principles that have been used in previous schemes.

That's what I was trying to say. I think "recoup your costs" could be replaced with "make real money" but otherwise you are spot on. It relies on you being emperor at the top of your own pyramid, raking in the commission from your 'subjects', while you yourself are in turn a vassal of someone higher up the tree than you, who is raking in even more. Like you said, a pyramid. A legal pyramid, but a pyramid all the same.

You apparently get a $40 commission for each new member you can bring in. Which is presumably why Will was here touting for business.

Well, he gets 10 out of 10 for trying!

[1949threepence 3,366]

There is/was a similar scheme involving Natural Health products (vitamins and other supplements). As you say Will, these are not pyramid schemes per se i.e. they are perfectly legal. I looked into joining this other scheme (this was in the 90s) but after reading the literature thoroughly, I concluded that it involved more time and effort and recruitment than I was prepared to put in.

No matter how it is dressed up, it is pyramid selling, it relies on additional layers of sellers beneath you for you to recoup your costs. The people at the top of the tree, and the odd good seller will make their fortune, and use the evidence to convince those further down to join. Inevitably it doesn't take that many layers before the numbers of people required to continue the pattern becomes mammoth. The last ones to hop on board have no chance of convincing others and the bubble bursts leaving them with products for which they have overpaid. The names may have changed but it is the same principles that have been used in previous schemes.

That's what I was trying to say. I think "recoup your costs" could be replaced with "make real money" but otherwise you are spot on. It relies on you being emperor at the top of your own pyramid, raking in the commission from your 'subjects', while you yourself are in turn a vassal of someone higher up the tree than you, who is raking in even more. Like you said, a pyramid. A legal pyramid, but a pyramid all the same.

You apparently get a $40 commission for each new member you can bring in. Which is presumably why Will was here touting for business.

Well, he gets 10 out of 10 for trying!

Full marks for effort, more ordinary marks for persuasion.

[bagerap 706]

"When everyone has signed up, who are you supposed to sell to? "

About ten years ago IIRC, there was a pyramid called something like Women Empowering Women. It was centred on a small geographical area, the Isle of Wight. Anyway although a runaway success for the founders, so much so that it soon spread beyond its point of origin; it became blindingly obvious that everyone on the Isle of Wight was trying to sell to each other.

Press attention ensued and the scheme went the way of all "guaranteed business ventures". Splat!

[Will_loves_collecting_coin 0]

It is NOT the classic pyramid scheme/scam as we know. If you really want to be picky and say 'no matter how its dressed up its still pyramid selling' then let me give you something to think about.

EVERY single product that you have EVER bought has gone through a pyramid scheme. All companies are pyramid schemes. Everything is in a pyramid shape.

L'oriel

Distributor 1 distributor 2 distributor 3 distributor 4

sainsburys tesco asda morrisons aldi co-op wilkos lidl

customer 1 customer 2 customer 3 customer 4 customer 5 customer 6 customer 7 customer 8 customer 9

What shape is that? I'll answer it for you. Its a pyramid. Oh sorry, its a pyramid scam because its a pyramid shape. Research network marketing first. We will never end up with over priced products because 1. we pay lower prices than anywhere else and 2. they are TANGIBLE ASSETS

And for the people that put up those links, they are OLD links. The company works very differently now.

[Will_loves_collecting_coin 0]

For some reason the shape changed when i pressed add reply......wierd

oh and write down the order of government. prime minister, next, then the next until you get down to the public. Do the same with a school, then the catholic church. Keep doing it and you'll see a pattern

[TomGoodheart 373]

It is NOT the classic pyramid scheme/scam as we know. If you really want to be picky and say 'no matter how its dressed up its still pyramid selling' then let me give you something to think about.

EVERY single product that you have EVER bought has gone through a pyramid scheme. All companies are pyramid schemes. Everything is in a pyramid shape.

What shape is that? I'll answer it for you. Its a pyramid. Oh sorry, its a pyramid scam because its a pyramid shape. Research network marketing first. We will never end up with over priced products because 1. we pay lower prices than anywhere else and 2. they are TANGIBLE ASSETS

All I know Will, is that whn I Wiki 'network marketing' I get this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_marketing

As to the other points, I don't think Tesco asks it's customers to recruit new customers through contracting to a subscription scheme to get 'free' groceries!

And tangible assets your bullion may be (of course it is), but it seems to me that you're taking on trust the concept that silver will be worth more than you pay, or even anything at all, when you want to use it as collateral against a purchase.

If it all goes pear-shaped and everyone in this scheme decided to sell their bullion at the same time, what do you think will happen to prices? These are hardly scarce assets either, at least compared to the sorts of things people on this forum tend to collect.

If I'm proved wrong and you make a fortune, well I'll be delighted for you. But it's not for me.

[DaveG38 385]

You are all so polite on here, so I'll put it much more bluntly. I've got a brain in my head and I'm not daft enough to fall for a scam like this one! Anybody disagree?

[Will_loves_collecting_coin 0]

Like I've said, its not for everyone. Not everyone has the right frame of mind for network marketing to start off with, you have to change the way you think. My first goal is to leave my current job at the YHA before Christmas. I'll come back here and let you all know if i did it. If i do, i'l show you how you can do it too.

Oh and DaveG38, if this was a scam, WHY would i be coming back to answer everyones doubts? A scammer doesn't waste his time like i have. I knew after a few posts i would never bring anyone on, but i still answered to replies to settle things. I don't need an answer lol

Been great discussing with you all.

Will

[Peter 615]

Will

You are bright enough to sort your life out.

Just do it.

[Coinery 926]

Yep, take it easy, and good luck!

[Peckris 579]

It is NOT the classic pyramid scheme/scam as we know. If you really want to be picky and say 'no matter how its dressed up its still pyramid selling' then let me give you something to think about.

EVERY single product that you have EVER bought has gone through a pyramid scheme. All companies are pyramid schemes. Everything is in a pyramid shape.

L'oriel

Distributor 1 distributor 2 distributor 3 distributor 4

sainsburys tesco asda morrisons aldi co-op wilkos lidl

customer 1 customer 2 customer 3 customer 4 customer 5 customer 6 customer 7 customer 8 customer 9

What shape is that? I'll answer it for you. Its a pyramid. Oh sorry, its a pyramid scam because its a pyramid shape. Research network marketing first. We will never end up with over priced products because 1. we pay lower prices than anywhere else and 2. they are TANGIBLE ASSETS

And for the people that put up those links, they are OLD links. The company works very differently now.

I said it was a LEGAL pyramid, not a scam or illegal. But unlike all your other examples, such schemes involve recruiting people whose own recruitments end up giving you a share of their commission, just as your sales and all your recruits end up paying a proportion of commission to the person who recruited you, and so on up the line. That's the pyramid.

Unlike L'Oreal who produce hair care products based on public demand partly generated by advertising but also from reputation. The products are shipped out to wholesalers based on specific orders, and they in turn supply the supermarkets who put the product on their shelves based on public demand. And those supermarkets are all in competition with each other. As for customers, there's nothing to prevent them from going to Asda one week, Tesco the next, Sainsburys the week after. No-one is tied in. L'Oreal sink or swim on the basis of public taste and continued demand. Wholesalers will find other products if necessary. Ditto supermarkets. As for customers, their profits go to the supermarket, plus a portion to the wholesaler and the manufacturer.

On the other hand, if L'Oreal decided to supply to person X, who then decided to recruit people Y and Z to generate more sales, and they in turn recruited more people to supply and sell to ... THAT would be a fairer comparison with your scheme. Normal manufacturer / retail practices are not real pyramids.

[Rob 3,002]

Like I've said, its not for everyone. Not everyone has the right frame of mind for network marketing to start off with, you have to change the way you think. My first goal is to leave my current job at the YHA before Christmas. I'll come back here and let you all know if i did it. If i do, i'l show you how you can do it too.

Oh and DaveG38, if this was a scam, WHY would i be coming back to answer everyones doubts? A scammer doesn't waste his time like i have. I knew after a few posts i would never bring anyone on, but i still answered to replies to settle things. I don't need an answer lol

Been great discussing with you all.

Will

Hand your notice in tomorrow and you are half way there. I'm pretty certain that the YHA require less than 6 months notice. The sooner the better because you will have to devote all your time and more to make a living selling way overpriced bullion silver. As I said before, I wish you well in your investment.

[Paulus 1,942]

Like I've said, its not for everyone. Not everyone has the right frame of mind for network marketing to start off with, you have to change the way you think. My first goal is to leave my current job at the YHA before Christmas. I'll come back here and let you all know if i did it. If i do, i'l show you how you can do it too.

Oh and DaveG38, if this was a scam, WHY would i be coming back to answer everyones doubts? A scammer doesn't waste his time like i have. I knew after a few posts i would never bring anyone on, but i still answered to replies to settle things. I don't need an answer lol

Been great discussing with you all.

Will

Hand your notice in tomorrow and you are half way there. I'm pretty certain that the YHA require less than 6 months notice. The sooner the better because you will have to devote all your time and more to make a living selling way overpriced bullion silver. As I said before, I wish you well in your investment.

Phew!! No more posts on this thread today, what a relief!! ... Ooops ... sorry!

[Peter 615]

Pre 1992 copper is the real deal...I saved about £5 which was worth £8

[Peckris 579]

Pre 1992 copper is the real deal...I saved about £5 which was worth £8

Did you actually manage to sell it and make a profit? Mind you, at that rate all those 1967 pennies are beginning to look worthwhile!

[Rob 3,002]

Standing outside Corbitts sale last week we were handed a couple of cards from someone claiming to be a director of ISN which has prompted me to revisit this thread. It is probably worth considering the arguments put forward last year. Silver has not risen as claimed. 16 months ago it stood at $28/£17.83, today it is $22.30/£13.82. That's a superb return on your $96 investment for an ounce of silver - it could have underperformed big-time.

I couldn't help thinking about a double page advert in the last edition of 'The Coin Probe' placed by a similar type of organisation and shown below.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Rob

[Rob 3,002]

There was also a front page spread on a major collector of these artificially inflated price products.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Rob

[TomGoodheart 373]

Yeah. On their US website they are flogging two silver eagles for $300 That's over £90 for an ounce of silver. I don't care that they are MS9,001, it's still just a very fancy way of selling bullion at a huge mark up.

Of course US forums are full of people who collect such things and pay a premium for an extra shiny (MS70) lump of silver over a washer (MS68). It wil be interesting to see whether the market for such things eventually goes the way of beanie babys or whatever. Ridiculous.

[NRP 38]

Interestingly the the article in the coin probe wasn't over the inflated prices of them selling modern silver but over a chap who came to see me to sell me some old rare coins. Yes they actually sell old coins such as hammered gold etc to cut the story short he came round with a selection of coins he had a Charles the I unite, common one in VF that I would sell for £2000 they had charged him £9000, he had a gf 2 guineas worth around 1500 they had charged him 8000, a James I untie VF again worth about 1800 they had charged him 5000 and a 1937 gold set worth 5000 tops they had charged him 20000!!!! Let's is just say he was not happy when I told him the true value and it turns out he has spent 250000 with them over two years!!!!

[Rob 3,002]

Interestingly the the article in the coin probe wasn't over the inflated prices of them selling modern silver but over a chap who came to see me to sell me some old rare coins. Yes they actually sell old coins such as hammered gold etc to cut the story short he came round with a selection of coins he had a Charles the I unite, common one in VF that I would sell for £2000 they had charged him £9000, he had a gf 2 guineas worth around 1500 they had charged him 8000, a James I untie VF again worth about 1800 they had charged him 5000 and a 1937 gold set worth 5000 tops they had charged him 20000!!!! Let's is just say he was not happy when I told him the true value and it turns out he has spent 250000 with them over two years!!!!

Wow. So he has a collection of low grade higher value coins worth about £50K or so. A few thousand I can see being spent without a bit of research. A few hundred thousand???????? Caveat emptor.

I too have picked up old collections where the realisation of what was purchased against market value was a bit of a shock, though not on that scale. Mine were typically a 4 figure sum for things worth a couple of hundred pounds tops.............. multiplied a few dozen times. Every example I noted had a lot of glossy sales blurb with an image of an example of the coin provided in high grade, but the contents of the box were typically fine. The only exception being proofs where the coin was virtually as struck, but the price paid many times that of market value.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Rob