Taylor

[Cristatus]

I have been looking for a reference work on Taylor without success. I have Peck and various other books and articles that mention Taylor but all in passing when covering Bolton and Soho. Any suggestions welcome.

[Rob]

I don't think there is one, so if you want to get started, feel free.

I don't know what he was making before the Soho Mint shut in the late 1840s, but following the sale in 1848 he moved to Australia where he set up the Kangaroo mint office in the early 50s. This was not a succes and so he returned in about 1860 or so. His work producing restrikes is thought to have started around 1862 and continued for the next 20 years.

[TomGoodheart]

No books afaik, just a few references such as Forrer: http://museumvictoria.com.au/collections/themes/2538/w-j-taylor-mint-london-united-kingdom and articles such as: http://www.sterlingcurrency.com.au/research/wj-taylors-kangaroo-office-patterns-1855-and-1860

My interest is limited to the fact that he made this:

.

Edited December 23, 2014 by TomGoodheart

[Cristatus]

Many thanks for the replies. What is the coin pictured by TomGoodheart? I cannot see the inscription to identify the coin?

[azda]

Its a charles I shilling

[Peckris]

Peck is probably one of the best authorities on Taylor.

[MRD]

Little bit of a brief on Taylor here, but more on his Australian venture.

http://www.sterlingcurrency.com.au/research/wj-taylors-kangaroo-office-patterns-1855-and-1860

[Rob]

What a useful article. Thank you.

[Cristatus]

Still interested in what coin is pictured in the answer given by TomGoodheart, azda has referred to the avatar not the copper coin shown in the thread.

[Rob]

Still interested in what coin is pictured in the answer given by TomGoodheart, azda has referred to the avatar not the copper coin shown in the thread.

Liberia 1c 1862. The image file title says so. Or more specifically 1862 with the 6 over 4, the reverse die being a leftover from the 1847 issue.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Rob

[Peckris]

No books afaik, just a few references such as Forrer: http://museumvictoria.com.au/collections/themes/2538/w-j-taylor-mint-london-united-kingdom and articles such as: http://www.sterlingcurrency.com.au/research/wj-taylors-kangaroo-office-patterns-1855-and-1860

My interest is limited to the fact that he made this:

KM 3 Liberia Cent 1862.jpg

.

That Liberian coin is fascinating. It appears, from the 'ghosted' portions of reverse, that he may have simply re-used and re-engraved a Cartwheel twopence or one penny die? It would be interesting to know the dimensions of the Liberia coin.

[davidrj]

There are some superb patterns in this series

[bagerap]

On reflection David, it probably would have been better for me not to have clicked that link. I now want some of those very badly. Particularly that glorious elephant.

[TomGoodheart]

No books afaik, just a few references such as Forrer: http://museumvictoria.com.au/collections/themes/2538/w-j-taylor-mint-london-united-kingdom and articles such as: http://www.sterlingcurrency.com.au/research/wj-taylors-kangaroo-office-patterns-1855-and-1860

My interest is limited to the fact that he made this:

KM 3 Liberia Cent 1862.jpg

.

That Liberian coin is fascinating. It appears, from the 'ghosted' portions of reverse, that he may have simply re-used and re-engraved a Cartwheel twopence or one penny die? It would be interesting to know the dimensions of the Liberia coin.

Sorry. Been at work. To answer the questions the Liberia cent is smaller than cartwheels. 28mm, 9g of copper so closer to the Isle of Man halfpenny ....

.

Edited December 24, 2014 by TomGoodheart

[Peckris]

No books afaik, just a few references such as Forrer: http://museumvictoria.com.au/collections/themes/2538/w-j-taylor-mint-london-united-kingdom and articles such as: http://www.sterlingcurrency.com.au/research/wj-taylors-kangaroo-office-patterns-1855-and-1860

My interest is limited to the fact that he made this:

KM 3 Liberia Cent 1862.jpg

.

That Liberian coin is fascinating. It appears, from the 'ghosted' portions of reverse, that he may have simply re-used and re-engraved a Cartwheel twopence or one penny die? It would be interesting to know the dimensions of the Liberia coin.

Sorry. Been at work. To answer the questions the Liberia cent is smaller than cartwheels. 28mm, 9g of copper so closer to the Isle of Man halfpenny ....

.

Thanks Tom. Those are interesting marks on the reverse though.

[Cristatus]

Thanks everyone, I now realise I had seen the these Liberian coins before but never paid much attention to them and therefore did not spot the link to Taylor. I will definitely add one or two to my collection. It looks like 1847 and 1862 are the only dates available.

I am trying to pull together a full collection of coins (and potentially medals) to match the sets from the Soho auction catalogue has anyone else done this or is anyone aware if a complete set remains anywhere in a single collection as several complete sets were amongst the items auctioned?

Merry Xmas

[Cristatus]

Hi I am still researching Soho and Taylor and have found references to a couple of articles I would like to read and wondered does anyone have copies of the following they could pdf to me:

1. Vice D : A Fresh insight into Soho Mint re-strikes & those responsible for their manufacture (Format Coins 1995)

2. Pollard JG:Matthew Boulton and JP Droz Numismatic Chronicle 1968

3 Pollard JG: Matthew Boulton and CH Kuchler Numismatic Chronicle 1968

Also interested in any old Format coins lists with information on coins, tokens and medals from Soho and/or Taylor

Thanks in anticipation of any help available.

[Peckris]

JG Pollard ... didn't he write very good sci-fi? Or perhaps I'm mixing him up with someone else ..

[Cristatus]

I have continued to research Taylor but have not managed to get copies of the documents I identified in the post about 3 weeks ago, but I have found a 1916 publication Biographical Dictionary of Medallists, Coin, Gem and Seal engravers, mint masters ancient and modern BC500 to AD1900 Volk IV by L Former a Spink publication. The book and other volumes are available as free downloads on the internet as they must be very hard to an original as the cover says limited to 300 copies.

So Taylor 1802 to 1885 trained by Halliday (who had worked for Boulton as an engraver) Halliday also trained Joseph Moore and William Wyon. Taylor set up business in London 1829. Taylor does not actually appear to have gone to Australia himself but sent a coining press and complete plant to Melbourne in 1852 and Mr WR Scaiffe was in charge. Forrer credits Dr Stanley Bousefield for a lot of the information he obtained and Dr SB seems to have bought various items when Taylor's business closed in 1908. The business in Australia did not succeed in minting gold coins as planned but did produce various tokens. Back in London Taylor seems to have been mostly producing medals, but did produce patterns for French coinage 5,2,and 1 Franc and 50 centimes. He also produced penny and half penny tokens for William Till in 1834 and 35. The 1847 and 1862 Liberian coins are mentioned (I have now bought one each of these). Undated half penny token by Matthew Young. The re-striking of Soto material is mentioned but of course Peck's book deals with this is great detail. Also mentioned is re-striking of Fullerton's patterns in gold, silver and copper and white metal for 2/6, 1/6,1/- and 6d, subsequent to the earlier re strikes by Matthew Young. Finally re-striking of 1801 Devonshire County Twopenny token and various Napoleonic and Seringapatam medals The medal list quoted is quite extensive and deserves some more time to understand the quality of work but a few just to demonstrate are: Shakespeare medal 1842, Brazil coronation medal 1841, free trade medal by Taylor and Allan,

[Cristatus]

Sorry a few auto correct typing issues above - the author is L Forrer, and it is Vol VI

[Cristatus]

I have 2 dishes that are most likely by Taylor. I found them both on eBay in the last few weeks having never seen one before. I have found a third photographed on this website www.oldcopper.org\/commerative_tokens.htm.

The inscription is not quite correct as the coin obverse is from the 5s6d pattern of 1811 not the 1804 Dollar. There is no mark to confirm it was a Taylor product but it seems almost certain to me it must have been his output.

The 2 examples are identical as far as I can see although one has much more wear and a much brighter finish from polishing. It looks to me like it is a coin soldered onto the dish rather than stamped into the dish. I am tempted to try and remove the coin from the most worn example to satisfy my curiosity to see if the coin is a uniface or if the reverse 5s6d is present

[brg5658]

This token that made it into the "Conder token" guide of Dalton and Hamer under Middlesex is attributed to Taylor, circa 1870.

It is not a case of Taylor simply using a die he purchased from SOHO, as the originals of this token design struck around Jan 1795 have many differences including: 1) the originals have "C" Ibberson, not "G" Ibberson, as this later piece does; 2) Originals have a saddle cloth under St. George, this later imitation does not, 3) originals have a completely different typeface and wreath on the reverse.

The imitations were struck in white metal, brass, and copper -- all metal types are quite scarce. Atkins mentioned this imitation token in his reference of 1892, but Dalton and Hamer assigned it a unique number of Middlesex-343 when they compiled their (now gold-standard) reference in the 19-teens.