1862 Penny Varieties

[DaveG38]

Can anybody help me with advice about varieties of the 1862 penny? I've just bought a second one, in rather better condition than the original, though still not fantastic, and I have noticed several differences beteen the two. Basically, the new one appears to be the 'standard' 1862 version, whereas the original has three (so far) points of difference:

1. On the reverse, the 6 and the 2 are more narrowly spaced and the pointings to the border teeth are different.

2. On the obverse, the gap between the top of the head and the raised ring is a little smaller.

3. On the obverse the first T in BRITT is distinctly misaligned with the I and the other T.

To avoid any doubts, I don't think, based on Freeman's identifiers, that I have got examples of Obverse 2 and Obverse 6. As far as I can judge, I seem to have two Obverse 6 examples, except that they differ from each other, so does anybody know of any varieties for this type?

[Bernie]

A picture might help Dave

[Accumulator]

Ok, Dave, you seem to have one of each variety.

The gap at the top of the head is noticeably smaller in obverse 6, and the first T of BRITT is misaligned in obverse 2. The pairing 2 + G is rare, so hopefully you have a nice example?

In the photos below Obverse 2 is on the left and 6 is on the right:

Edited November 14, 2014 by Accumulator

[DaveG38]

Ok, Dave, you seem to have one of each variety.

The gap at the top of the head is noticeably smaller in obverse 6, and the first T of BRITT is misaligned in obverse 2. The pairing 2 + G is rare, so hopefully you have a nice example?

In the photos below Obverse 2 is on the left and 6 is on the right:

Oh if only it were, but sadly both of mine are, I think Obverse 6 - there's no sign of W Wyon on either of them. In my case, the gap at the top of the bust is only marginally smaller on one example compared to the other, say 0.8mm against 1.00mm - in other words a tiny difference.

The misaligned 'T' is similar in range to yours, but in mine the left hand cross piece of the 'T' drops downwards, not the right hand side as on yours. Finally, the 6 and 2 in the date are wider on one example than on the other.

If I could get my camera working I'd put up a photo or two. If not I'll see what I can do otherwise.

[Peckris]

Ok, Dave, you seem to have one of each variety.

The gap at the top of the head is noticeably smaller in obverse 6, and the first T of BRITT is misaligned in obverse 2. The pairing 2 + G is rare, so hopefully you have a nice example?

In the photos below Obverse 2 is on the left and 6 is on the right:

Oh if only it were, but sadly both of mine are, I think Obverse 6 - there's no sign of W Wyon on either of them. In my case, the gap at the top of the bust is only marginally smaller on one example compared to the other, say 0.8mm against 1.00mm - in other words a tiny difference.

The misaligned 'T' is similar in range to yours, but in mine the left hand cross piece of the 'T' drops downwards, not the right hand side as on yours. Finally, the 6 and 2 in the date are wider on one example than on the other.

If I could get my camera working I'd put up a photo or two. If not I'll see what I can do otherwise.

That's absolutely normal and very common for the first 4 years of bun pennies - all it signifies is a different die, not die variety. The spacing - and even orientation - of the final 2 to the 6, is extremely varied.

[AardHawk]

Micheal Gouby lists seven distinct varieties of 1862 penny.

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

Micheal Gouby lists seven distinct varieties of 1862 penny.

Penny 1862 Varieties.jpeg

Not to mention the 1862/1 ...

we'll ignore the different date placements

[Peckris]

Micheal Gouby lists seven distinct varieties of 1862 penny.

Penny 1862 Varieties.jpeg

Not to mention the 1862/1 ...

we'll ignore the different date placements

What are Michael's rarity ratings? I know that with Freeman R8 and R9 stand for "not especially scarce", but I assume MG's are different.

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

Micheal Gouby lists seven distinct varieties of 1862 penny.

Penny 1862 Varieties.jpeg

Not to mention the 1862/1 ...

we'll ignore the different date placements

What are Michael's rarity ratings? I know that with Freeman R8 and R9 stand for "not especially scarce", but I assume MG's are different.

I'm not home now and don't have my copy with me....

There should be a rarity scale listed within.

He also attempts to note the quantity known on the rarer varieties but with new discoveries being made those numbers are always subject to change and should be used as a guide and not accepted as gospel...

[just.me]

Micheal Gouby lists seven distinct varieties of 1862 penny.

Penny 1862 Varieties.jpeg

Not to mention the 1862/1 ...

we'll ignore the different date placements

What are Michael's rarity ratings? I know that with Freeman R8 and R9 stand for "not especially scarce", but I assume MG's are different.

Michaels Rarity scale is:

A1 - Abundant

C2 - Common

N3 - Normal

S4 - Scarce (201-500)

R5 - Rare (101-200)

R6 - Very rare (51-100)

R7 - Extremely rare (26-50)

R8 10-25 possibly known

R9 - 2-9 possibly known

PU - Possibly Unique

The term possibly known is used to allow for the possibility that some of the known rarities have been double counted when a coin has been sold from one collection to another without the researchers knowledge. The () numbers given are an approximation

[Peckris]

Micheal Gouby lists seven distinct varieties of 1862 penny.

Penny 1862 Varieties.jpeg

Not to mention the 1862/1 ...

we'll ignore the different date placements

What are Michael's rarity ratings? I know that with Freeman R8 and R9 stand for "not especially scarce", but I assume MG's are different.

Michaels Rarity scale is:

A1 - Abundant

C2 - Common

N3 - Normal

S4 - Scarce (201-500)

R5 - Rare (101-200)

R6 - Very rare (51-100)

R7 - Extremely rare (26-50)

R8 10-25 possibly known

R9 - 2-9 possibly known

PU - Possibly Unique

The term possibly known is used to allow for the possibility that some of the known rarities have been double counted when a coin has been sold from one collection to another without the researchers knowledge. The () numbers given are an approximation

Thanks for that. But now I'm WELL confused. 201-500 = SCARCE??? Ye gods, that's major rarity. Ok, not compared to a 1933 penny perhaps, but still very rare. His scale goes geometrically for three ratings, then just falls off a cliff! The 2 Michaels seem at both ends of a very long extreme.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Peckris

[AardHawk]

What are Michael's rarity ratings? I know that with Freeman R8 and R9 stand for "not especially scarce", but I assume MG's are different.

He says that the Dg and Eg, both R9 had one ton of each produced, so 108,000 coins.