Hoarding / Melting Bronze Pre And Decimal

[scottishmoney]

Can it be legally done in Britain? I have seen discussions on a Canadian forum where this subject has come up.

[Peckris]

Can it be legally done in Britain? I have seen discussions on a Canadian forum where this subject has come up.

I'm not sure about the predecimal position, but anything post-1971 can't be melted; that IS illegal.

[Coinery]

This is quite funny, really, as I remember this topic also being a tad feisty a few years ago.

Anyway, something I've learned since, regardless of the legal position, is that (a bit of a generalisation unfortunately) the majority of people who smelt and buy scrap, are mostly the same people who won't ask you too many questions about it.

At least that was my experience, once! (Well, twice, actually!)

[Sword]

Can it be legally done in Britain? I have seen discussions on a Canadian forum where this subject has come up.

I'm not sure about the predecimal position, but anything post-1971 can't be melted; that IS illegal.

This is from the guidelines issued by the HM Treasury.

"(1) No person shall, except under the authority of a licence granted by the Treasury, melt down or break up any metal coin which is for the time being current in the United Kingdom or which, having been current there, has at any time after 16th May 1969 ceased to be so."

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/194220/guidance_coinage_banknotes.pdf

This statment suggests that it is fine prior to that date. People melt pre 1947 silver coins, and I can't see why bronze coins should be any different.

[HistoricCoinage]

"(1) No person shall, except under the authority of a licence granted by the Treasury, melt down or break up any metal coin which is for the time being current in the United Kingdom or which, having been current there, has at any time after 16th May 1969 ceased to be so."

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/194220/guidance_coinage_banknotes.pdf

But what if melted abroad, like this guy shows?

[Peckris]

Can it be legally done in Britain? I have seen discussions on a Canadian forum where this subject has come up.

I'm not sure about the predecimal position, but anything post-1971 can't be melted; that IS illegal.

This is from the guidelines issued by the HM Treasury.

"(1) No person shall, except under the authority of a licence granted by the Treasury, melt down or break up any metal coin which is for the time being current in the United Kingdom or which, having been current there, has at any time after 16th May 1969 ceased to be so."

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/194220/guidance_coinage_banknotes.pdf

This statment suggests that it is fine prior to that date. People melt pre 1947 silver coins, and I can't see why bronze coins should be any different.

Unfortunately, that quote was the very one that caused the earlier uproar! If you examine its logic, it is saying that even if a coin WAS legal tender in the UK, but has been declared no longer legal tender after 16/5/69, it's still illegal to melt. That little word "or", you see.

[Sword]

Can it be legally done in Britain? I have seen discussions on a Canadian forum where this subject has come up.

I'm not sure about the predecimal position, but anything post-1971 can't be melted; that IS illegal.

This is from the guidelines issued by the HM Treasury.

"(1) No person shall, except under the authority of a licence granted by the Treasury, melt down or break up any metal coin which is for the time being current in the United Kingdom or which, having been current there, has at any time after 16th May 1969 ceased to be so."

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/194220/guidance_coinage_banknotes.pdf

This statment suggests that it is fine prior to that date. People melt pre 1947 silver coins, and I can't see why bronze coins should be any different.

Unfortunately, that quote was the very one that caused the earlier uproar! If you examine its logic, it is saying that even if a coin WAS legal tender in the UK, but has been declared no longer legal tender after 16/5/69, it's still illegal to melt. That little word "or", you see.

Thanks for pointing that out Peck. So one can't melt pre decimal pennies as they were demonitzed after 5/69.

But by that logic, one can't melt silver shillings or florins or come to think of it, even sovereigns? Doesn't make any sense now.

[Nick]

Not wanting to get into this again, but the act does say that the Treasury can grant licences to do so. In reality though, even without a licence, if you were caught with a crucible containing molten gold or silver - who is to say what form that metal took before melting.

It's obviously not an issue though as Spink even quote BV (bullion value) prices for some lower grades of gold coins.

Edited January 22, 2014 by Nick

[Colin G.]

The one time I tried to do it, the only concern they had was that all their scrap ended up in china, and it was the shipping of the items internationally that caused the problems. They said they could still do it but required a quantity large enough to justify the paperwork.

This was predecimal coinage.

They actually ended up at a charity shop

[Peckris]

Yes, 1) you need a licence from the Treasury but 2) could they prove anything if you did melt, as Nick points out?

I assume the old halfpenny was demonetised AFTER 16th May 1969 so it was swept up by the legislation? Which means that the only denominations legal to melt are:

• farthings
• fractional farthings
• all pre-1860 copper
• all pre-1816 silver

However, most of those that are Fair or better have a numismatic value way in excess of melt value.

[scottishmoney]

I wonder how much the BRM is melting - ie post 1971 coinage, but pre-plated steel? I know the Royal Canadian Mint is actively retiring all bronze and nickel coinage and melting them and selling the result.

[Peter]

I started on collecting pre 1992 copper but after collecting about £10 it was worth £15 I gave up.

I still have BU mint rolls of 60's cu and a load of decimals my great,great grandson/daughter might benefit.

[Peckris]

I started on collecting pre 1992 copper but after collecting about £10 it was worth £15 I gave up.

I still have BU mint rolls of 60's cu and a load of decimals my great,great grandson/daughter might benefit.

Any .. (be still, my beating heart) .. 1967 pennies? Or 1971 bronze??

[Sword]

A thought has just come to me. The 1936 coinage Offenses act prohibited the defacement of "current" coins. I have read somewhere that the defacement of any coin has been legal since 1981 when a new act came into force (Forgery and Counterfeiting Act). Hence you see notices next to machines which allow you to press pennies into souvenirs saying that the practice is legal.

The guidelines issued by the HM Treasury merely says that it is not legal to "melt" or "break up" coins that were legal tender after 1969. How about if you were to hammer them into "tokens" first? Then they would be coins no longer, and hence would they then be legal to melt?

[Peckris]

A thought has just come to me. The 1936 coinage Offenses act prohibited the defacement of "current" coins. I have read somewhere that the defacement of any coin has been legal since 1981 when a new act came into force (Forgery and Counterfeiting Act). Hence you see notices next to machines which allow you to press pennies into souvenirs saying that the practice is legal.

The guidelines issued by the HM Treasury merely says that it is not legal to "melt" or "break up" coins that were legal tender after 1969. How about if you were to hammer them into "tokens" first? Then they would be coins no longer, and hence would they then be legal to melt?

I think the "no melt" ruling is to prevent the gaining of profit from the value of metal which is technically still owned by the Treasury. It's not the coins that concern them, it's the scrap value. So making tokens purely to melt them would be against the spirit (and possibly the wording?) of the Act.