Seen On Another Forum

[Rob]

Brilliant.

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=6&threadid=904709

[davidrj]

Brilliant.

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=6&threadid=904709

Taking the p*ss Rob?

[Rob]

Could have said Euronation. Now that would be worrying.

[Peckris]

Could have said Euronation. Now that would be worrying.

I take it you're a Euroseptic then, Rob?

[HistoricCoinage]

[Rob]

Could have said Euronation. Now that would be worrying.

I take it you're a Euroseptic then, Rob?

Europe is septic. I personally, am a eurosceptic.

[Peckris]

Could have said Euronation. Now that would be worrying.

I take it you're a Euroseptic then, Rob?

Europe is septic. I personally, am a eurosceptic.

Hook line and sinker, Rob

[geoffhobson]

No, I'd better not reply.

[Peter]

Just let a small fart out.

The sprouts should assist.

[Peckris]

Just let a small fart out.

The sprouts should assist. ....

...and The Daily Mail, which does all the European thinking for a vast swathe of the population.

[Rob]

Just let a small fart out.

The sprouts should assist. ....

...and The Daily Mail, which does all the European thinking for a vast swathe of the population.

People who subscribe to and read the tabloids get what they are told they deserve.

[Accumulator]

Just let a small fart out.

The sprouts should assist. ....

...and The Daily Mail, which does all the European thinking for a vast swathe of the population.

At least they do slightly more thinking on Europe than the 3 'main' parties

[Rob]

Just let a small fart out.

The sprouts should assist. ....

...and The Daily Mail, which does all the European thinking for a vast swathe of the population.

At least they do slightly more thinking on Europe than the 3 'main' parties

Should be 4 main parties. Lab & Con only discuss if pressed very hard. Lib Dems reject criticism & UKIP reject anyone who doesn't criticise. And so the debate stagnates. Most discussion takes place amongst the general populace.

[Peckris]

Just let a small fart out.

The sprouts should assist. ....

...and The Daily Mail, which does all the European thinking for a vast swathe of the population.

At least they do slightly more thinking on Europe than the 3 'main' parties

So you say. I vehemently disagree. The likes of the Mail have turned this country into a nation of Euro-phobes since 1975 (when we collectively voted to stay in), fed by a swathe of urban myths typified by the famous Yes, Minister episode about the 'traditional British sausage'.

Just to throw one single fact at you : we, in this supposedly enlightened economy, have the lowest proportion of retirement pension compared to average wage, of any EU member. That makes you happy? It doesn't me. Nor do pro-Murdoch rants from the red-tops.

[Accumulator]

Just let a small fart out.

The sprouts should assist. ....

...and The Daily Mail, which does all the European thinking for a vast swathe of the population.

At least they do slightly more thinking on Europe than the 3 'main' parties

So you say. I vehemently disagree. The likes of the Mail have turned this country into a nation of Euro-phobes since 1975 (when we collectively voted to stay in), fed by a swathe of urban myths typified by the famous Yes, Minister episode about the 'traditional British sausage'.

Just to throw one single fact at you : we, in this supposedly enlightened economy, have the lowest proportion of retirement pension compared to average wage, of any EU member. That makes you happy? It doesn't me. Nor do pro-Murdoch rants from the red-tops.

In 1975 we voted to remain in the 'Common Market', what we have nearly 40 years later is something very different. We have the EU, as the name implies, a Union.

I certainly don't glean my facts from the likes of the Mail and I can't see how the pension arrangements of this country have anything whatsoever to do with our being inside or outside of the EU. I'm not saying our pensions are good (they're not), just that I don't want this country ruled by Brussels. I'm not alone in that.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Accumulator

[Peckris]

Just let a small fart out.

The sprouts should assist. ....

...and The Daily Mail, which does all the European thinking for a vast swathe of the population.

At least they do slightly more thinking on Europe than the 3 'main' parties

So you say. I vehemently disagree. The likes of the Mail have turned this country into a nation of Euro-phobes since 1975 (when we collectively voted to stay in), fed by a swathe of urban myths typified by the famous Yes, Minister episode about the 'traditional British sausage'.

Just to throw one single fact at you : we, in this supposedly enlightened economy, have the lowest proportion of retirement pension compared to average wage, of any EU member. That makes you happy? It doesn't me. Nor do pro-Murdoch rants from the red-tops.

In 1975 we voted to remain in the 'Common Market', what we have nearly 40 years later is something very different. We have the EU, as the name implies, a Union.

I certainly don't glean my facts from the likes of the Mail and I can't see how the pension arrangements of this country have anything whatsoever to do with our being inside or outside of the EU. I'm not saying our pensions are good (they're not), just that I don't want this country ruled by Brussels. I'm not alone in that.

The mere fact you think we are 'ruled from Brussels' is one of the misconceptions that really get my goat. Did you know, by the way, that in the recent food bank thing (which itself is scandalous > ) we were offered a lot of money by the EU in aid, which the Tories turned down ... "we can manage without your help thank you". Yeah, right.

[DaveG38]

Just let a small fart out.

The sprouts should assist. ....

...and The Daily Mail, which does all the European thinking for a vast swathe of the population.

At least they do slightly more thinking on Europe than the 3 'main' parties

So you say. I vehemently disagree. The likes of the Mail have turned this country into a nation of Euro-phobes since 1975 (when we collectively voted to stay in), fed by a swathe of urban myths typified by the famous Yes, Minister episode about the 'traditional British sausage'.

Just to throw one single fact at you : we, in this supposedly enlightened economy, have the lowest proportion of retirement pension compared to average wage, of any EU member. That makes you happy? It doesn't me. Nor do pro-Murdoch rants from the red-tops.

In 1975 we voted to remain in the 'Common Market', what we have nearly 40 years later is something very different. We have the EU, as the name implies, a Union.

I certainly don't glean my facts from the likes of the Mail and I can't see how the pension arrangements of this country have anything whatsoever to do with our being inside or outside of the EU. I'm not saying our pensions are good (they're not), just that I don't want this country ruled by Brussels. I'm not alone in that.

The best guesstimate I have seen for the legal impact of the EU on the UK is that some 10-20% of our laws now come from the EU. That doesn't include busines impacting legislation which is thought to be around 50%. The problem is that there are plenty of directives and other impacts on the way in which we do things, not all of them founded in actual laws, stemming from a Commission that is wholly unelected and answerable to nobody. My objection is that I don't want people outside the UK deciding what should and shouldn't happen here, because I have no say in electing those who are making those decisions. Within the UK I can vote the party out and if I'm lucky I'll get another bunch of useless politicians in power.

I also strongly object to an organisation that is so corrupt that it cannot even get its own accounts signed off for almost any fiscal year. In any business, the directors would be investigated by the fraud squad, but in the EU this kind of thing is the norm. That stinks in my view.

[davidrj]

I also strongly object to an organisation that is so corrupt that it cannot even get its own accounts signed off for almost any fiscal year. In any business, the directors would be investigated by the fraud squad, but in the EU this kind of thing is the norm. That stinks in my view.

Audit report

[Colin G.]

Just let a small fart out.

The sprouts should assist. ....

...and The Daily Mail, which does all the European thinking for a vast swathe of the population.

At least they do slightly more thinking on Europe than the 3 'main' parties

So you say. I vehemently disagree. The likes of the Mail have turned this country into a nation of Euro-phobes since 1975 (when we collectively voted to stay in), fed by a swathe of urban myths typified by the famous Yes, Minister episode about the 'traditional British sausage'.

Just to throw one single fact at you : we, in this supposedly enlightened economy, have the lowest proportion of retirement pension compared to average wage, of any EU member. That makes you happy? It doesn't me. Nor do pro-Murdoch rants from the red-tops.

I have to say I was only the tender age of 1 at the time, and never got to have my input on the situation, and have never been able to since. Yet I have to vote every 4ish years to decide who I want to run the country. For those of you who voted in 1975 that is great you made your decision, for the generations that have followed should we not also have the opportunity to have a say?

[Accumulator]

It all boils down to a simple choice - European Union or national democracy. The two are mutually exclusive.

I respect everyone's opinion (Peckris, David, Colin, Rob, everyone…), whether pro or anti. What I can't respect is the 'political elite' denying the population the chance to make their choice. The only conceivable grounds for denial, is the opinion that 'we' know better than 'you' and can't trust 'you' to make the correct decision. It's surely that simple?

Off my soapbox now…

[Colin G.]

It all boils down to a simple choice - European Union or national democracy. The two are mutually exclusive.

I respect everyone's opinion (Peckris, David, Colin, Rob, everyone…), whether pro or anti. What I can't respect is the 'political elite' denying the population the chance to make their choice. The only conceivable grounds for denial, is the opinion that 'we' know better than 'you' and can't trust 'you' to make the correct decision. It's surely that simple?

Off my soapbox now…

Wholeheartedly agree

[Nick]

It all boils down to a simple choice - European Union or national democracy. The two are mutually exclusive.

I respect everyone's opinion (Peckris, David, Colin, Rob, everyone), whether pro or anti. What I can't respect is the 'political elite' denying the population the chance to make their choice. The only conceivable grounds for denial, is the opinion that 'we' know better than 'you' and can't trust 'you' to make the correct decision. It's surely that simple?

Off my soapbox now

I suspect that even if we were given a choice, we would have to keep doing so until we gave them the 'right' answer as per the Irish Treaty of Lisbon debacle.

[DaveG38]

I also strongly object to an organisation that is so corrupt that it cannot even get its own accounts signed off for almost any fiscal year. In any business, the directors would be investigated by the fraud squad, but in the EU this kind of thing is the norm. That stinks in my view.

Audit report

I'm not sure what point this report is making. It's not, as I read it, concerned with the EU general budget, but is simply the 1.6 billion Euro budget of a number of EU agencies. That is just 1.2% of the total budget, which is a long way from the EU total budget, which includes at least £4billion contributed by the UK. For me the issue is what do we get for our £4 billion and why can't the EU apparently get its budget signed off. Why do we get no say in who the EU rulers are, nor what the Commission decides to impose on us?

For me we've come a huge way from the original intention of the EU when it was literally a Common Market. Nowadays its heading inexorably towards becoming a superstate, and that isn't something I want to be part of, mainly because it's approach is wholly anti-competitive and that will ultimately make us unable to pay our way in the world. I want control of our own finances, laws etc. and I don't want that placed in the hands of people who will not be acting in our best interests but in their own, or at best the best interests of the rest of the members. I thank god we never joined the Euro and hopefully never will!

[davidrj]

sorry thought that was the full report

budget is complex - the wikipedia page shows comparison of our contributions

[Peckris]

It all boils down to a simple choice - European Union or national democracy. The two are mutually exclusive.

I respect everyone's opinion (Peckris, David, Colin, Rob, everyone…), whether pro or anti. What I can't respect is the 'political elite' denying the population the chance to make their choice. The only conceivable grounds for denial, is the opinion that 'we' know better than 'you' and can't trust 'you' to make the correct decision. It's surely that simple?

Off my soapbox now…

1. We are not in the Euro, and never have been. That was our government's free choice. Personally I'm all in favour of that, as the Euro itself has been the biggest unmitigated disaster of the EU.

2. Speaking as a citizen of the oldest federated union in Europe (over more than 1000 years, Yorkshiremen and Cornishmen have not lost their individual identities), the EU is hardly the recipe for the feared 'loss of national identity'. Germans, French, Spanish, and Italians, are no less German, French, Spanish, or Italian through being members of the EU. Nor are they clamouring for independence from it, apart from their own equivalents of UKIP.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Peckris