1852 florin (ii over i variety)

[Nick]

Is this the ii over i variety or not? Even though the second i looks to be a slightly different size to the first and is doubled, I thought that the ii over i variety showed remnants of the original full stop under the second i.

[azda]

Is this the ii over i variety or not? Even though the second i looks to be a slightly different size to the first and is doubled, I thought that the ii over i variety showed remnants of the original full stop under the second i.

Beware of the shill bidding if bidding

[declanwmagee]

Is this the ii over i variety or not? Even though the second i looks to be a slightly different size to the first and is doubled, I thought that the ii over i variety showed remnants of the original full stop under the second i.

Beware of the shill bidding if bidding

Really Dave? Is this seller involved too?

[azda]

Oh yes. I followed his other eBay name, he had 20 Gold coins on and 1 bidder who i know because that bidder bought from me, that bidder had bidded on and was winning 12 of his lots to the tune of £5500.

As soon as i'd listed and shared it on here every Single auction had gone within 30 mins that the bidder was winning but left the BINs. He definately reads these boards, how else would he have known to take the shilled coins off lol

[Coinery]

Is this the ii over i variety or not? Even though the second i looks to be a slightly different size to the first and is doubled, I thought that the ii over i variety showed remnants of the original full stop under the second i.

There's got to be a chance, I suppose? There would be space for the stop to be entirely hidden under that i, and there could've been more than one die re-used this way. However, I wouldn't buy it as one, though, as I'd definitely want a 'peeping stop' die-variety to substantiate the claim.

There must be endless varieties out there, which are now impossible to 100% confirm, it's only in cases such as your suggested part showing stop, that you can name it. Unless other die features clearly link it to a li obverse.... Without a long-winded post, I think you know where I'm coming from. Basically, without other die identifiers, I don't see how he, or anyone else, could ever call it ii/i

[Rob]

Is this the ii over i variety or not? Even though the second i looks to be a slightly different size to the first and is doubled, I thought that the ii over i variety showed remnants of the original full stop under the second i.

There's got to be a chance, I suppose? There would be space for the stop to be entirely hidden under that i, and there could've been more than one die re-used this way. However, I wouldn't buy it as one, though, as I'd definitely want a 'peeping stop' die-variety to substantiate the claim.

There must be endless varieties out there, which are now impossible to 100% confirm, it's only in cases such as your suggested part showing stop, that you can name it. Unless other die features clearly link it to a li obverse.... Without a long-winded post, I think you know where I'm coming from. Basically, without other die identifiers, I don't see how he, or anyone else, could ever call it ii/i

He can call it what he likes and that is the rub. Listings on ebay are full of spurious claims, and the higher the catalogue value the more frequently they are encountered. I too would like a little corroborative evidence in the form of an identifiably identical 1851 die to say for certain.

[Coinery]

Is this the ii over i variety or not? Even though the second i looks to be a slightly different size to the first and is doubled, I thought that the ii over i variety showed remnants of the original full stop under the second i.

There's got to be a chance, I suppose? There would be space for the stop to be entirely hidden under that i, and there could've been more than one die re-used this way. However, I wouldn't buy it as one, though, as I'd definitely want a 'peeping stop' die-variety to substantiate the claim.

There must be endless varieties out there, which are now impossible to 100% confirm, it's only in cases such as your suggested part showing stop, that you can name it. Unless other die features clearly link it to a li obverse.... Without a long-winded post, I think you know where I'm coming from. Basically, without other die identifiers, I don't see how he, or anyone else, could ever call it ii/i

He can call it what he likes and that is the rub. Listings on ebay are full of spurious claims, and the higher the catalogue value the more frequently they are encountered. I too would like a little corroborative evidence in the form of an identifiably identical 1851 die to say for certain.

And if he'd spent the last couple of weeks pulling that kind of truly verifiable evidence together, he sure as hell wouldn't be leaving it to rot on his hard-drive! It would've been proudly copied and pasted into a very grand description on eBay!

[Nick]

Is this the ii over i variety or not? Even though the second i looks to be a slightly different size to the first and is doubled, I thought that the ii over i variety showed remnants of the original full stop under the second i.

There's got to be a chance, I suppose? There would be space for the stop to be entirely hidden under that i, and there could've been more than one die re-used this way. However, I wouldn't buy it as one, though, as I'd definitely want a 'peeping stop' die-variety to substantiate the claim.

There must be endless varieties out there, which are now impossible to 100% confirm, it's only in cases such as your suggested part showing stop, that you can name it. Unless other die features clearly link it to a li obverse.... Without a long-winded post, I think you know where I'm coming from. Basically, without other die identifiers, I don't see how he, or anyone else, could ever call it ii/i

He can call it what he likes and that is the rub. Listings on ebay are full of spurious claims, and the higher the catalogue value the more frequently they are encountered. I too would like a little corroborative evidence in the form of an identifiably identical 1851 die to say for certain.

And if he'd spent the last couple of weeks pulling that kind of truly verifiable evidence together, he sure as hell wouldn't be leaving it to rot on his hard-drive! It would've been proudly copied and pasted into a very grand description on eBay!

I see that London Coins have previously sold a few ii/i varieties and on each one part of the stop is still visible, so I think I'll give this one a miss.

[declanwmagee]

Oh yes. I followed his other eBay name, he had 20 Gold coins on and 1 bidder who i know because that bidder bought from me, that bidder had bidded on and was winning 12 of his lots to the tune of £5500.

As soon as i'd listed and shared it on here every Single auction had gone within 30 mins that the bidder was winning but left the BINs. He definately reads these boards, how else would he have known to take the shilled coins off lol

Blimey. I just bought my first coin from him. Very pleased with it, but it's big league for me. I don't think I paid over the odds, but what do I know? I'm strictly a beginner with coins over £50. I'll do a photo tomorrow and put it up, and you lot can tell me how much I should have paid!

[Benny who]

I have only just seen this post,however these are images of my ii over i.The second i is not as deeply struck with the original full stop over the lower serif.I have left the images large for better scrutiny,so hopefuly other pointers can be found.

Sadly this is another coin that I now regret selling if the price of the previous ebay listing is anything to go by.

[VickySilver]

Nice picture!

Mine has a distinct dot just to the clockwise of that of the first over struck "I"

[Nick]

I have only just seen this post,however these are images of my ii over i.The second i is not as deeply struck with the original full stop over the lower serif.I have left the images large for better scrutiny,so hopefuly other pointers can be found.

Sadly this is another coin that I now regret selling if the price of the previous ebay listing is anything to go by.

A lovely florin, good strike too. You can just see part of the dot on the inner curve of the second i. I've looked at quite a few of these early florins and it seems possible that the last few 'digits' of the roman date (after mdccc) were added manually. Therefore, I suspect that the ii. over i. is just correcting a mistake in 1852 rather than using an 1851 die, which were all proofs as far as I'm aware.

[Nick]

I have only just seen this post,however these are images of my ii over i.The second i is not as deeply struck with the original full stop over the lower serif.I have left the images large for better scrutiny,so hopefuly other pointers can be found.

Sadly this is another coin that I now regret selling if the price of the previous ebay listing is anything to go by.

All of the images of 1852 ii/i I've found so far have two small raised bumps just to the left of the top of the d in d:g:. Is your's the same VS?

[Benny who]

Nice picture!

Mine has a distinct dot just to the clockwise of that of the first over struck "I"

This one is the same,more so when you hold it at an angle,the two marks beside the D is a good tip for spotting them.

I have only just seen this post,however these are images of my ii over i.The second i is not as deeply struck with the original full stop over the lower serif.I have left the images large for better scrutiny,so hopefuly other pointers can be found.

Sadly this is another coin that I now regret selling if the price of the previous ebay listing is anything to go by.

A lovely florin, good strike too. You can just see part of the dot on the inner curve of the second i. I've looked at quite a few of these early florins and it seems possible that the last few 'digits' of the roman date (after mdccc) were added manually. Therefore, I suspect that the ii. over i. is just correcting a mistake in 1852 rather than using an 1851 die, which were all proofs as far as I'm aware.

Sold this awhile ago,and now wish that I had kept it.Keep rotating coins for some inane reason.

I think it would have meant that there would have been more proof like versons on the market,if it had have been from the 51,more than likely would have just been an error,as you have said.Not sure however when it would have been used,wheather it would have been put straight into production with the error fixed or left until the end incase a die breaks or the likes,as a back up.

[VickySilver]

Yes, Nick that is exactly mine as well..

[Nick]

Yes, Nick that is exactly mine as well..

Thanks. More than one identifier always helps in the case of non-Heritage sized pictures.