FDC Grade

[azda]

Before

After

[1949threepence]

Interesting question! I would certainly prefer to collect coins that have not been tempered with in anyway. Hence, I do prefer nicely toned silver coins over blazing white ones. But what if a coin has not been damaged by dipping and has changed hands several times since .... Then the latest owner / seller might not be any wiser.

Personally, I would want to pay less (as a matter of principle) if I suspect a coin has been previously dipped but has full lustre. It will tone back in time in anycase. However, I am unlikely to buy it altogether if the lustre has been dulled by dipping.

Most experienced collectors would spot the tell tale signs of a coin that has been dipped, as the "lustre" appears flat, and does not radiate from the surface in the same way that natural lustre does.

Interesting article here

Dipped: A coin that has been immersed in a substance, or had a substance placed on its surface, to removed some or all of the original or toned surface of the coin, to make the coin look lustrous. (The original surface could be grime from circulation or toning.)

Many substances are used to "dip" coins, jewelry cleaner, bleach, Brasso, etc, and each give the coin a distinct appearance. With a little experience and a lot of caution, a buyer can learn to distinguish the differences between a "natural" coin or one that has been tampered with.

If a coin has a lot of wear and looks white, or the surface is too shiny or clean, then it may have been dipped or chemically altered. Most coins, altered in this method, will have a distinct "flat" luster due to the chemical causing microscopic etchings in the metal surface. Most normal coins will have a glossy or smooth or frosty-lustrous appearance to their surfaces. It takes a little experience to differentiate between dipped and normal coins.

[Sword]

Interesting question! I would certainly prefer to collect coins that have not been tempered with in anyway. Hence, I do prefer nicely toned silver coins over blazing white ones. But what if a coin has not been damaged by dipping and has changed hands several times since .... Then the latest owner / seller might not be any wiser.

Personally, I would want to pay less (as a matter of principle) if I suspect a coin has been previously dipped but has full lustre. It will tone back in time in anycase. However, I am unlikely to buy it altogether if the lustre has been dulled by dipping.

Most experienced collectors would spot the tell tale signs of a coin that has been dipped, as the "lustre" appears flat, and does not radiate from the surface in the same way that natural lustre does.

Interesting article here

Dipped: A coin that has been immersed in a substance, or had a substance placed on its surface, to removed some or all of the original or toned surface of the coin, to make the coin look lustrous. (The original surface could be grime from circulation or toning.)

Many substances are used to "dip" coins, jewelry cleaner, bleach, Brasso, etc, and each give the coin a distinct appearance. With a little experience and a lot of caution, a buyer can learn to distinguish the differences between a "natural" coin or one that has been tampered with.

If a coin has a lot of wear and looks white, or the surface is too shiny or clean, then it may have been dipped or chemically altered. Most coins, altered in this method, will have a distinct "flat" luster due to the chemical causing microscopic etchings in the metal surface. Most normal coins will have a glossy or smooth or frosty-lustrous appearance to their surfaces. It takes a little experience to differentiate between dipped and normal coins.

Many thanks for the article 1949. I don't think I am experienced enough at the moment to distinguish between the different types of lustre but I prefer toned silver coins in any case. Nice photos by the way, Azda.

Last year, I brought a matt proof 1902 crown with a really nice golden tone. (The coin is not quite FDC because of a tiny contact mark on the reverse which was almost invisible in the original auction photo. The tiny bits of grey in the photo is due to reflection of some kind and is not seen on the acutal coin in hand). If nice toning like this can potentially lower a coin's grade from FDC, then so be it in my view. FDC or not FDC, I still prefer toned silver coins.

[Paulus]

Interesting question! I would certainly prefer to collect coins that have not been tempered with in anyway. Hence, I do prefer nicely toned silver coins over blazing white ones. But what if a coin has not been damaged by dipping and has changed hands several times since .... Then the latest owner / seller might not be any wiser.

Personally, I would want to pay less (as a matter of principle) if I suspect a coin has been previously dipped but has full lustre. It will tone back in time in anycase. However, I am unlikely to buy it altogether if the lustre has been dulled by dipping.

Most experienced collectors would spot the tell tale signs of a coin that has been dipped, as the "lustre" appears flat, and does not radiate from the surface in the same way that natural lustre does.

Interesting article here

Dipped: A coin that has been immersed in a substance, or had a substance placed on its surface, to removed some or all of the original or toned surface of the coin, to make the coin look lustrous. (The original surface could be grime from circulation or toning.)

Many substances are used to "dip" coins, jewelry cleaner, bleach, Brasso, etc, and each give the coin a distinct appearance. With a little experience and a lot of caution, a buyer can learn to distinguish the differences between a "natural" coin or one that has been tampered with.

If a coin has a lot of wear and looks white, or the surface is too shiny or clean, then it may have been dipped or chemically altered. Most coins, altered in this method, will have a distinct "flat" luster due to the chemical causing microscopic etchings in the metal surface. Most normal coins will have a glossy or smooth or frosty-lustrous appearance to their surfaces. It takes a little experience to differentiate between dipped and normal coins.

Many thanks for the article 1949. I don't think I am experienced enough at the moment to distinguish between the different types of lustre but I prefer toned silver coins in any case. Nice photos by the way, Azda.

Last year, I brought a matt proof 1902 crown with a really nice golden tone. (The coin is not quite FDC because of a tiny contact mark on the reverse which was almost invisible in the original auction photo. The tiny bits of grey in the photo is due to reflection of some kind and is not seen on the acutal coin in hand). If nice toning like this can potentially lower a coin's grade from FDC, then so be it in my view. FDC or not FDC, I still prefer toned silver coins.

There are lots of sweeping faint lines on your photo of the coin Sword, what do you put those down to?

[Coinery]

FDC or not FDC, I still prefer toned silver coins.

Me too, Sword!

[azda]

The article that 1949 posted is basically there to tout American TPGs if you read it carefully

[Paulus]

FDC or not FDC, I still prefer toned silver coins.

Me too, Sword!

AbsaBloodyLutely!

[VickySilver]

Or rather that the article touts the capacity of the two major TPGs to pick out dipped pieces = really more of a comparo re: the lesser or backyard TPGs to pick out specimens altered.

[Sword]

Interesting question! I would certainly prefer to collect coins that have not been tempered with in anyway. Hence, I do prefer nicely toned silver coins over blazing white ones. But what if a coin has not been damaged by dipping and has changed hands several times since .... Then the latest owner / seller might not be any wiser.

Personally, I would want to pay less (as a matter of principle) if I suspect a coin has been previously dipped but has full lustre. It will tone back in time in anycase. However, I am unlikely to buy it altogether if the lustre has been dulled by dipping.

Most experienced collectors would spot the tell tale signs of a coin that has been dipped, as the "lustre" appears flat, and does not radiate from the surface in the same way that natural lustre does.

Interesting article here

Dipped: A coin that has been immersed in a substance, or had a substance placed on its surface, to removed some or all of the original or toned surface of the coin, to make the coin look lustrous. (The original surface could be grime from circulation or toning.)

Many substances are used to "dip" coins, jewelry cleaner, bleach, Brasso, etc, and each give the coin a distinct appearance. With a little experience and a lot of caution, a buyer can learn to distinguish the differences between a "natural" coin or one that has been tampered with.

If a coin has a lot of wear and looks white, or the surface is too shiny or clean, then it may have been dipped or chemically altered. Most coins, altered in this method, will have a distinct "flat" luster due to the chemical causing microscopic etchings in the metal surface. Most normal coins will have a glossy or smooth or frosty-lustrous appearance to their surfaces. It takes a little experience to differentiate between dipped and normal coins.

Many thanks for the article 1949. I don't think I am experienced enough at the moment to distinguish between the different types of lustre but I prefer toned silver coins in any case. Nice photos by the way, Azda.

Last year, I brought a matt proof 1902 crown with a really nice golden tone. (The coin is not quite FDC because of a tiny contact mark on the reverse which was almost invisible in the original auction photo. The tiny bits of grey in the photo is due to reflection of some kind and is not seen on the acutal coin in hand). If nice toning like this can potentially lower a coin's grade from FDC, then so be it in my view. FDC or not FDC, I still prefer toned silver coins.

There are lots of sweeping faint lines on your photo of the coin Sword, what do you put those down to?

I am not sure why it has toned like that. I can't see any hairlines under magnification and it is much less noticeable in real life. Photo 2 attached.

[azda]

Ah yes, i can see them to, under the chin and going from the legend to the beard and unpwards to the lip

[azda]

Or rather that the article touts the capacity of the two major TPGs to pick out dipped pieces = really more of a comparo re: the lesser or backyard TPGs to pick out specimens altered.

I've seen many more sellers saying people SHOULD buy TPGs slabs, its like they're trying to mass panic them into believing they have got to do so.............Sheep spring to mind

Oh and MS61 is UK GEF/AU

Edited December 16, 2012 by azda

[Sword]

Might be it is best to leave discussions regarding slabbing and TPGs at least until the festive season is over? Lets wound down rather than heat up before Christmas! :) :)

[Coinery]

Might be it is best to leave discussions regarding slabbing and TPGs at least until the festive season is over? Lets wound down rather than heat up before Christmas! :) :)

Hear, hear...compliments of the season to you sword!

[VickySilver]

Amen, will leave blanket unsupported statements and assertions at Peace without response for the season!

Meanwhile, we can encourage actually learning as well and will say that though I am no supporter PCGS has supplied their definition to each numerical grade they "award" It might be entertaining enlightenment to see what VF, EF, AU are as well (say, as opposed to lower grade UNC), and why there are different numbers for uncirculated in the 60-70 range.

Meanwhile, I have seen "good olde daye" Spink coins listed as GEF thar really were Uncirculated and without other than the most minor of bagmarks and no wear.

Edited December 16, 2012 by VickySilver

[azda]

PCGS etc use a 1-70 scale CGS 1-100 scale. Ask Peter the same queation as he also quoted the MS61 grade as GEF:AU. Blanket out on this one now.

Happy xmas

[Sword]

compliments of the season to you sword!

Merry Christmas to you too Coinery!!

[1949threepence]

Or rather that the article touts the capacity of the two major TPGs to pick out dipped pieces = really more of a comparo re: the lesser or backyard TPGs to pick out specimens altered.

Well whatever the underlying reasons for its existence, I actually posted it purely for the technical write up on dipping, which for me, was the only relevant issue.