1887 double florin proof

[ski]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1887-2FL-NGC-PF64-/230851147879?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item35bfccf867

im a little concerned about this coin.....firstly, the emergency sale.....maybe genuine.

but for me the ngc slab doesnt seem right.....ive only 3 ngc slabs, they all have under the bar code either ngc or the full title......this coin doesnt have either.

ive trawled the ngc site and cannot find a coin without this titling under the bar code.

secondly the reverse hologram is like no other ive seen.....and finally, when you enter the id in the ngc website....no pic.

what do you think?

ski

[Rob]

I don't think there's anything wrong with it. The reverse hologram is as used on the early bulky slabs. The two examples I have with this type have reference numbers 162612 and 195437, but have the early insert without bar coding. The earliest slab I have with a bar code is 308500 which is obviously later than the coin listed, but the double florin appears to fit into the sequence ok. Those with a bar code can have NGC, Numismatic Guaranty Corporation or nothing below, and there are several types of hologram. Here the various designs of both label and hologram are shown.

[Coinery]

I don't think there's anything wrong with it. The reverse hologram is as used on the early bulky slabs. The two examples I have with this type have reference numbers 162612 and 195437, but have the early insert without bar coding. The earliest slab I have with a bar code is 308500 which is obviously later than the coin listed, but the double florin appears to fit into the sequence ok. Those with a bar code can have NGC, Numismatic Guaranty Corporation or nothing below, and there are several types of hologram. Here the various designs of both label and hologram are shown.

Staggering, that slab link is a whole new lifetime of learning in itself, the NGC changes have been huge!

[ski]

hi Rob....the link youve provided is for the samples that ngc distributed to collectors to arouse interest in the slabbing concept.

the ebay example i posted isnt for a sample but a coin slabbed for commercial purposes.

Staggering, that slab link is a whole new lifetime of learning in itself, the NGC changes have been huge!

all just samples that ngc gave away at shows.....proving the concept.

ski

Edited September 15, 2012 by ski

[ski]

additionally.....all the samples were stated as such in the ticket...the above coin isnt ticketed as a sample....all the samples were of low value coins given away as freebies, a 1887 double florin arabic 1 proof doesnt really fall into this catagory.

ski

[Rob]

I have slabs with no bar code, barcode and no legend, barcode with NGC and barcode with the full name. The earliest two which I have to hand are the green label without barcode. The highest number is 195xxx. The double florin falls between this number and the lowest number I have with barcode to hand. That there is no image is not surprising because the number is an early reference number (which is supported by the early hologram on the back which is the same as my green label slab ). Images are not provided unless paid for by the submitter and at the time indicated by the reference, I'm not sure the service was even offered. I have a few 'Cheshire Collection' NGC slabs which are numbered 1846720 to 727. These can be accurately dated to the beginning of 2005 as we know this was when the coins were sent to NGC. At least one of these coins in my possession was unslabbed in Nicholson, so there can be no argument as to the dating/label no. correlation. The label on the double florin would date to the early 1990s at the latest being only 6 figures. I still don't think there is anything wrong.

There is no compulsion to have the coin imaged in the NGC reference section. A few months ago I commented on an NGC slabbed coin previously in my possession that had been tooled to remove a large scratch on the cheek prior to submission. That was a $30K coin in a St.James's sale, but there was still no image on the NGC site. That I knew the coin had been tooled was due to my having intimate knowledge of the piece which I could confirm was genuine on account of the untampered with tiny surface marks. Not everybody feels the need to pay extra to have the image taken. Many of the images appear to be the result of a personal desire to show off an individual's registry set, or to provide a virtual collection.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Rob

[azda]

additionally.....all the samples were stated as such in the ticket...the above coin isnt ticketed as a sample....all the samples were of low value coins given away as freebies, a 1887 double florin arabic 1 proof doesnt really fall into this catagory.

ski

I thought it was the Roman I type proof you were looking for ski? I'm only asking because i'd seen one with arabic 1 a while ago and asked for images of it and 2 others, unfortunately the Florin had thumb prints over it,... Pic attached

[Hussulo]

additionally.....all the samples were stated as such in the ticket...the above coin isnt ticketed as a sample....all the samples were of low value coins given away as freebies, a 1887 double florin arabic 1 proof doesnt really fall into this catagory.

ski

I was always under the impression that the sample slabs were pre-release slabs. As you say a cheap coin would be put into them and then they were handed out to dealers and collectors at coin shows etc. to show everyone what the new slabs will look like. Therefore you can look at the sample slabs as an indication and a reference to the reel slabs.

[ski]

thanks Rob, that clears that up.....lots of useful info there too.

yes Dave its a roman 1 proof im after....but that popped up in an ebay search and it just didnt look right.

thanks all for helping.

ski