Coinery Posted August 20, 2012 Author Posted August 20, 2012 With your original thoughts being upon 1 die, wouldn't that preclude this idea? If it was down to individual workers, wouldn't there be more than just a passing die? Just out of interest, is this really only the second reverse die of this class that you've seen with contraction marks?Ah, but the use of contraction marks (by which I mean the ' bit of the normal ! that divides the legend abbreviations) instead of the normal stops ( . ) on the reverse on this series is a different thing from using multiple stops near the privy mark. The latter I believe is decoration, or a way to identify dies .. for some purpose. The former I believe(d) was a die maker's whim. He couldn't find the stop punch and decided to save time by using the ' punch as an alternative. Same as using an inverted V instead of an A. And yes, I had only seen two coins like this before, both the same reverse die. If this die quirk was just for expediency, it would make sense there would only be one die. The existence of a second one is .. a bit odd.Thanks, Richard! I don't suppose you can remember where you saw the example of the other contraction reverse? Quote
TomGoodheart Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 (edited) With your original thoughts being upon 1 die, wouldn't that preclude this idea? If it was down to individual workers, wouldn't there be more than just a passing die? Just out of interest, is this really only the second reverse die of this class that you've seen with contraction marks?Ah, but the use of contraction marks (by which I mean the ' bit of the normal ! that divides the legend abbreviations) instead of the normal stops ( . ) on the reverse on this series is a different thing from using multiple stops near the privy mark. The latter I believe is decoration, or a way to identify dies .. for some purpose. The former I believe(d) was a die maker's whim. He couldn't find the stop punch and decided to save time by using the ' punch as an alternative. Same as using an inverted V instead of an A. And yes, I had only seen two coins like this before, both the same reverse die. If this die quirk was just for expediency, it would make sense there would only be one die. The existence of a second one is .. a bit odd.Thanks, Richard! I don't suppose you can remember where you saw the example of the other contraction reverse?Yes. It belongs to one of the members here. Edited August 20, 2012 by TomGoodheart Quote
Coinery Posted August 20, 2012 Author Posted August 20, 2012 With your original thoughts being upon 1 die, wouldn't that preclude this idea? If it was down to individual workers, wouldn't there be more than just a passing die? Just out of interest, is this really only the second reverse die of this class that you've seen with contraction marks?Ah, but the use of contraction marks (by which I mean the ' bit of the normal ! that divides the legend abbreviations) instead of the normal stops ( . ) on the reverse on this series is a different thing from using multiple stops near the privy mark. The latter I believe is decoration, or a way to identify dies .. for some purpose. The former I believe(d) was a die maker's whim. He couldn't find the stop punch and decided to save time by using the ' punch as an alternative. Same as using an inverted V instead of an A. And yes, I had only seen two coins like this before, both the same reverse die. If this die quirk was just for expediency, it would make sense there would only be one die. The existence of a second one is .. a bit odd.Thanks, Richard! I don't suppose you can remember where you saw the example of the other contraction reverse?Yes. It belongs to one of the members here.Isn't it odd, when you consider the depth at which these coins have previously been studied, that there has been no mention of this peculiarity anywhere!So two dies at least! Can I claim a finest known for this particular reverse then? Quote
TomGoodheart Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 Isn't it odd, when you consider the depth at which these coins have previously been studied, that there has been no mention of this peculiarity anywhere!So two dies at least! Can I claim a finest known for this particular reverse then? Sure. If only CGS slabbed hammered coins you could have it population listed too! Quote
Coinery Posted August 21, 2012 Author Posted August 21, 2012 Isn't it odd, when you consider the depth at which these coins have previously been studied, that there has been no mention of this peculiarity anywhere!So two dies at least! Can I claim a finest known for this particular reverse then? Sure. If only CGS slabbed hammered coins you could have it population listed too! Oh, the prestige of it, just imagine those immortal words..."finest known 1/1" Quote
Peter Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 Isn't it odd, when you consider the depth at which these coins have previously been studied, that there has been no mention of this peculiarity anywhere!So two dies at least! Can I claim a finest known for this particular reverse then? Sure. If only CGS slabbed hammered coins you could have it population listed too! Oh, the prestige of it, just imagine those immortal words..."finest known 1/1" Finest known...yep I've seen that misleading quote. Considering 99% of UK collectors don't slab their coins.It is like saying Newport County undefeated....they haven't played Man City yet....or even Orient. I've chuckled with a dealer at the midland "the quote finest known" was being bandied about...he said " I have 2 better ones in my tray" Quote
Coinery Posted October 22, 2012 Author Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) Someone has already reported this coin as a fake, and the seller has updated the listing accordingly http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/COPY-OF-CHARLES-I-HAMMERED-SHILLING-m-m-tun-ref-SPINK-2794-/251167319588?pt=UK_Coins_BritishHammered_RL&hash=item3a7abd2624In his favour, he has changed the Charles XII description to 'copy!' However NOT in his favour is he didn't spot an obviously suspicious coin!I'm half interested in his PM 1 Liz shilling, thinking it something worth photographing for my die-study, but have noticed a suspicious uniformity of 'tone' across all his coins for sale (even Victoria). Any thoughts from anyone?Are his coins tinkered with, fake, badly photographed, or genuine?Just had a sickening thought...I hope I haven't put my foot in it! It's so easy to forget there's a strong link between eBay and MOST people on the forum! Edited October 22, 2012 by Coinery Quote
pies Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 I think his photos have been altered to show greater detail,im guessing he is struggling to take a decent pic Quote
declanwmagee Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 I think his photos have been altered to show greater detail,im guessing he is struggling to take a decent pic ...and they're scans, of course, which homogenises even the most varied tones Quote
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