Major Copper Rarities

[Generic Lad]

Does anyone know of a good list of major copper (well bronze) rarities to keep an eye out for? I really don't seriously collect copper (I'm more for the silver side) but what are some good years and major die varieties to look out for that are worth significant amounts of money (as in, greater than like $15-20)

The reason that I ask is that I've found lots of pre-decimal copper at antique shops and other places priced as curiosities ($2-5 per penny, $1-3 for half-pennies, $1-2 for farthings) and most are fairly low grade (and some have corrosion on them)

Now of course, for common dates/varieties these in no way would be collectible, but if there was a rare die variety in there it would be worth purchasing.

The most common ones I've found are "ship" half-pennies, George V and VI farthings and pennies from bun head onwards. Chances are I'm not going to have my loupe with me to check for micro-varieties so just the major ones that are easily seen with the naked eye and would be visible on a worn coin.

[davidrj]

Does anyone know of a good list of major copper (well bronze) rarities to keep an eye out for? I really don't seriously collect copper (I'm more for the silver side) but what are some good years and major die varieties to look out for that are worth significant amounts of money (as in, greater than like $15-20)

The reason that I ask is that I've found lots of pre-decimal copper at antique shops and other places priced as curiosities ($2-5 per penny, $1-3 for half-pennies, $1-2 for farthings) and most are fairly low grade (and some have corrosion on them)

Now of course, for common dates/varieties these in no way would be collectible, but if there was a rare die variety in there it would be worth purchasing.

The most common ones I've found are "ship" half-pennies, George V and VI farthings and pennies from bun head onwards. Chances are I'm not going to have my loupe with me to check for micro-varieties so just the major ones that are easily seen with the naked eye and would be visible on a worn coin.

Have a look at Michael Gouby's site , he has pictures and descriptions of some of the varieties, His book is excellent but only covers Victorian pennies, for the rest you need a copy of Freeman

Beware though, this could get expensive if you get hooked!

David

[declanwmagee]

You could get some decent info from Wybrit...

Rarities and tips

If the grades are low you can pretty much forget ship halfpennies, I'd say. Even the 1957 calm sea has to be above VF to be interesting.

Wren farthings: nothing there either. Maybe 1953 2+A (Obv cross and Rev F both between beads).

George V farthings: 1915 Ts of BRITT almost touching - careful with this one - it's very rare and the Ts are quite close on the common one. Look at a 1913 or before - that's the obverse you're looking for for 1915.

Bun head pennies - most of the big boys here are far more qualified than I in this specialised field, but 1869 and 1875H spring to mind straight away.

Later pennies:

1903 open 3

1908 1*+C (you will need a loupe for that one!)

1909 2+E (1st 1 in date to tooth)

1911 Gouby X (I of IMP and I of BRITT both to teeth)

1913 2+A (GRA: BRITT colon centred, : after IMP >< teeth, 1st 1 of date at tooth)

that's about it really - don't bother hunting out H's, KN's or ME's under VF.

[azda]

You could get some decent info from Wybrit...

Rarities and tips

If the grades are low you can pretty much forget ship halfpennies, I'd say. Even the 1957 calm sea has to be above VF to be interesting.

Wren farthings: nothing there either. Maybe 1953 2+A (Obv cross and Rev F both between beads).

George V farthings: 1915 Ts of BRITT almost touching - careful with this one - it's very rare and the Ts are quite close on the common one. Look at a 1913 or before - that's the obverse you're looking for for 1915.

Bun head pennies - most of the big boys here are far more qualified than I in this specialised field, but 1869 and 1875H spring to mind straight away.

Later pennies:

1903 open 3

1908 1*+C (you will need a loupe for that one!)

1909 2+E (1st 1 in date to tooth)

1911 Gouby X (I of IMP and I of BRITT both to teeth)

1913 2+A (GRA: BRITT colon centred, : after IMP >< teeth, 1st 1 of date at tooth)

that's about it really - don't bother hunting out H's, KN's or ME's under VF.

1863 open 3 Penny and 1871 penny also jump out, 1865 over 3 is another 1862 small date numerals 1860 N over Z in ONE 1861 8 over 6 1864 Crosslet 4 1863 die number below

[Accumulator]

You could get some decent info from Wybrit...

Rarities and tips

If the grades are low you can pretty much forget ship halfpennies, I'd say. Even the 1957 calm sea has to be above VF to be interesting.

Wren farthings: nothing there either. Maybe 1953 2+A (Obv cross and Rev F both between beads).

George V farthings: 1915 Ts of BRITT almost touching - careful with this one - it's very rare and the Ts are quite close on the common one. Look at a 1913 or before - that's the obverse you're looking for for 1915.

Bun head pennies - most of the big boys here are far more qualified than I in this specialised field, but 1869 and 1875H spring to mind straight away.

Later pennies:

1903 open 3

1908 1*+C (you will need a loupe for that one!)

1909 2+E (1st 1 in date to tooth)

1911 Gouby X (I of IMP and I of BRITT both to teeth)

1913 2+A (GRA: BRITT colon centred, : after IMP >< teeth, 1st 1 of date at tooth)

that's about it really - don't bother hunting out H's, KN's or ME's under VF.

All good advice.

I would recommend Michael Freemans's book, "The Bronze Coinage of Great Britain", which lists all except the most recently discovered rarities. Michael Gouby has also published an excellent book which takes the search to another level though this may be a step too far for you at this stage.

Michael Gouby's website (MIchael Coins) lists many varieties alongside his coins for sale. For pennies only, my own collection is on line (see link below) and gives an indication of rarity alongside the photos though I haven't yet included any descriptions. I'm not a dealer and don't sell coins.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Accumulator

[Peter]

A few obvious farthings

1863,1874h with both G's over on the obverse,1875 large date and small date with NO H,1895 bun.

I would also consider 1883,1892 & all reasonable Edward V11 (1914&15) are also quite rare as are lustred 1935 & 1938

Have a look at Colin's site Aboutfarthings or use collectors coins GB by Chris.

Happy hunting

[Mongo]

Another forum member gave me this link to a coin value site, if you navigate to the pennies/halfpennies pages, you can scroll down the Fine grade value column and see if any are worth a few quid, this will probably reflect if they are rare and worth having in low grades, hope it helps!

http://www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk/values/

[Generic Lad]

Thanks for all the advice, I did actually manage to get a 1915 Farthing yesterday so I'm going to have to go try and see what variety it is.

[Generic Lad]

That's odd... I can't edit my post...

Anyways, the 1915 ended up being the widely spaced variety. Ah well.

[Peckris]

Another forum member gave me this link to a coin value site, if you navigate to the pennies/halfpennies pages, you can scroll down the Fine grade value column and see if any are worth a few quid, this will probably reflect if they are rare and worth having in low grades, hope it helps!

http://www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk/values/

One thing that no-one else has mentioned : many rarities are more common in lower grades than other relatively common dates are in BU.

So, my recommendation would be to track down the rarer varieties if they float your boat (for example, you won't find a 1903 "open 3" much better than Fine), but don't neglect the dates which are hard to find in BU. For pennies, the obvious ones that come to mind are :

1945 1944 1940 1934 1932 1931 1930 1926 1922 1915 most of Edward VII 1898 1895, or anything earlier than that.

On the other hand, lower grade examples of 1953, 1951, 1950, all Geo V H and KN, 1902 Low Tide, 1895 "2mm", and some bun penny varieties less than Fine (1875H 1865/3 1864 for example) are not really worth bothering with.

[Mongo]

Another forum member gave me this link to a coin value site, if you navigate to the pennies/halfpennies pages, you can scroll down the Fine grade value column and see if any are worth a few quid, this will probably reflect if they are rare and worth having in low grades, hope it helps!

http://www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk/values/

One thing that no-one else has mentioned : many rarities are more common in lower grades than other relatively common dates are in BU.

So, my recommendation would be to track down the rarer varieties if they float your boat (for example, you won't find a 1903 "open 3" much better than Fine), but don't neglect the dates which are hard to find in BU. For pennies, the obvious ones that come to mind are :

1945 1944 1940 1934 1932 1931 1930 1926 1922 1915 most of Edward VII 1898 1895, or anything earlier than that.

On the other hand, lower grade examples of 1953, 1951, 1950, all Geo V H and KN, 1902 Low Tide, 1895 "2mm", and some bun penny varieties less than Fine (1875H 1865/3 1864 for example) are not really worth bothering with.

Thats useful to know! I managed to grab a box of about 300+ pre decimal coins from a bric-a-brac shop yesterday for a tenner, theres loads of pennies/halfpennies in there. Sorting through that lot will keep me busy for a while!

[Peter]

Tony Claydon's site is useful but is no substitute for Collectors coins Great Britain.This on sale on Amazon UK & COM.

There are far more varieties listed and useful information....It is also cheap as chips.

[Peckris]

Tony Claydon's site is useful but is no substitute for Collectors coins Great Britain.This on sale on Amazon UK & COM.

There are far more varieties listed and useful information....It is also cheap as chips.

Agreed - and being published annually, it's more up to date too.

[Mongo]

Tony Claydon's site is useful but is no substitute for Collectors coins Great Britain.This on sale on Amazon UK & COM.

There are far more varieties listed and useful information....It is also cheap as chips.

Agreed - and being published annually, it's more up to date too.

Under a fiver on amazon! I think I will get a copy. Does anyone know what the release date will be for the 2012 edition? Save me buying two if its out soon.

[Peter]

Tony Claydon's site is useful but is no substitute for Collectors coins Great Britain.This on sale on Amazon UK & COM.

There are far more varieties listed and useful information....It is also cheap as chips.

Agreed - and being published annually, it's more up to date too.

Under a fiver on amazon! I think I will get a copy. Does anyone know what the release date will be for the 2012 edition? Save me buying two if its out soon.

Chris Perkins the owner of this site can only tell you that.

I can't see a 2012 edition coming out this year....but I'm sure Chris will confirm.

The information on rarities and key dates won't change.

[Generic Lad]

Tony Claydon's site is useful but is no substitute for Collectors coins Great Britain.This on sale on Amazon UK & COM.

There are far more varieties listed and useful information....It is also cheap as chips.

Agreed - and being published annually, it's more up to date too.

Under a fiver on amazon! I think I will get a copy. Does anyone know what the release date will be for the 2012 edition? Save me buying two if its out soon.

Chris Perkins the owner of this site can only tell you that.

I can't see a 2012 edition coming out this year....but I'm sure Chris will confirm.

The information on rarities and key dates won't change.

Quite ironic. I was looking at numismatic literature on Amazon and found the 2009 edition on there used for 76 cents with $3.99 shipping and bought it about 3 days ago. And speaking of which, any other good (cheap!, yes this means no Peck ) reference books to get?

So far I have: Spinks (a few editions, newest 2009), Coincraft (1997 edition I believe), quite a few "world coin" general reference books, quite a few US books ranging from general (Red Book) to specific (pattern coins and civil war tokens), and whenever it arrives in my mailbox, Collector Coins of Great Britain

On my watchlist are, England's Striking History, a copy of Freeman, a copy of Peck (I can always hope I can find one at a used bookstore or library sale!) and also I'd like to find a cheap copy of Spinks from before decimalization just to see the commentary and the prices in LSD

Any other glaring omissions?

[Peckris]

Quite ironic. I was looking at numismatic literature on Amazon and found the 2009 edition on there used for 76 cents with $3.99 shipping and bought it about 3 days ago. And speaking of which, any other good (cheap!, yes this means no Peck ) reference books to get?

So far I have: Spinks (a few editions, newest 2009), Coincraft (1997 edition I believe), quite a few "world coin" general reference books, quite a few US books ranging from general (Red Book) to specific (pattern coins and civil war tokens), and whenever it arrives in my mailbox, Collector Coins of Great Britain

On my watchlist are, England's Striking History, a copy of Freeman, a copy of Peck (I can always hope I can find one at a used bookstore or library sale!) and also I'd like to find a cheap copy of Spinks from before decimalization just to see the commentary and the prices in LSD

Any other glaring omissions?

Um, "no" to what, exactly?

As to what books you get, it very much depends what your interests are. Seaby/Spink is always good as a reference, though the more recent, the more varieties are in them. For hammered silver you need North, for milled you need English Silver Coinage, for most varieties since 1816 you need Davies, and for a near complete micro-varieties of the 20th Century you need Dave Groom's book.

For copper and bronze, Peck is the royal standard, for bronze it's Freeman, for bronze pennies it's Gouby, and Dave G also has a 20C bronze book too.

Then there are Seaby standards for Roman and Greek, though Rotographic also do useful references for Roman, George III, banknotes, etc. For tokens there is Dalton & Hamer but an edition of Seaby Copper Coins includes tokens too.

Spink only took over in the mid-90s. before then it was the Seaby Standard Catalogue, and you should be able to find a predecimal edition on eBay for only a few £.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Peckris

[Peter]

Do you have a library system in the US?

I tended to loan the books before I bought.

I have built up my books over the years as interests in area's grew.

Some I rarely use but others I could not resist (Montagu).

I think you have basis of a nice reference section.

When you need another book you will know.

[Generic Lad]

Quite ironic. I was looking at numismatic literature on Amazon and found the 2009 edition on there used for 76 cents with $3.99 shipping and bought it about 3 days ago. And speaking of which, any other good (cheap!, yes this means no Peck ) reference books to get?

So far I have: Spinks (a few editions, newest 2009), Coincraft (1997 edition I believe), quite a few "world coin" general reference books, quite a few US books ranging from general (Red Book) to specific (pattern coins and civil war tokens), and whenever it arrives in my mailbox, Collector Coins of Great Britain

On my watchlist are, England's Striking History, a copy of Freeman, a copy of Peck (I can always hope I can find one at a used bookstore or library sale!) and also I'd like to find a cheap copy of Spinks from before decimalization just to see the commentary and the prices in LSD

Any other glaring omissions?

Um, "no" to what, exactly?

As to what books you get, it very much depends what your interests are. Seaby/Spink is always good as a reference, though the more recent, the more varieties are in them. For hammered silver you need North, for milled you need English Silver Coinage, for most varieties since 1816 you need Davies, and for a near complete micro-varieties of the 20th Century you need Dave Groom's book.

For copper and bronze, Peck is the royal standard, for bronze it's Freeman, for bronze pennies it's Gouby, and Dave G also has a 20C bronze book too.

Then there are Seaby standards for Roman and Greek, though Rotographic also do useful references for Roman, George III, banknotes, etc. For tokens there is Dalton & Hamer but an edition of Seaby Copper Coins includes tokens too.

Spink only took over in the mid-90s. before then it was the Seaby Standard Catalogue, and you should be able to find a predecimal edition on eBay for only a few £.

Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for them.

And yes, there are quite a few libraries around here but most have very little when it comes to British coins. My local library belongs to a network of about 50 of them in the same geographic area and the only British coin reference books are:

2 copies of the 1995 coincraft, a handful of outdated "world coin" books including a single copy of Krause, and.... that's it. No Spinks, and no specialty references. The university I go to does for some odd reason have a copy of Peck (and only Peck, no other British coin reference books) but I'm back home for the summer now. There are a few libraries in other towns not part of the network but won't let you get a card unless you live near there (because you'd be paying property taxes for the upkeep of the library if you lived nearby) and the nearest one of them is about an hours drive away. For US coins, there are books left and right including various specialty references at libraries but no such luck for British coins.

[Peter]

As and when you require info let the forum know.There are google books (out of print books on DVD's)web sites.

Advice and help is free

[Peckris]

As and when you require info let the forum know.There are google books (out of print books on DVD's)web sites.

Advice and help is free

And you don't actually need a copy of Freeman - just ask Dave! He will then ask us

[1949threepence]

Does anyone know of a good list of major copper (well bronze) rarities to keep an eye out for? I really don't seriously collect copper (I'm more for the silver side) but what are some good years and major die varieties to look out for that are worth significant amounts of money (as in, greater than like $15-20)

The reason that I ask is that I've found lots of pre-decimal copper at antique shops and other places priced as curiosities ($2-5 per penny, $1-3 for half-pennies, $1-2 for farthings) and most are fairly low grade (and some have corrosion on them)

Now of course, for common dates/varieties these in no way would be collectible, but if there was a rare die variety in there it would be worth purchasing.

The most common ones I've found are "ship" half-pennies, George V and VI farthings and pennies from bun head onwards. Chances are I'm not going to have my loupe with me to check for micro-varieties so just the major ones that are easily seen with the naked eye and would be visible on a worn coin.

Copper

1849 penny

Bronze Pennies

1860 "mule": beaded border on one side, toothed on the other

1862 8 over 6

1863 with die No below date

1864 (plain or crosslet) in EF or above. Common in lower grades, exceedingly scarce in higher.

1865 5 over 3, again in EF or above. Not that scarce in lower to mid grade (fantastic example on this site)

1869 once again in EF or above. Although considered the "Holy Grail" of pennies, in truth it's not too scarce in lower grades.

1871 in high grade

1875H in high grade

1876H wide date in high grade

1877 narrow date

1879 narrow date

1881 (quite difficult to get in any grade, took me a long time)

1895 with trident 2mm from "P" of penny, in high grade

1918KN & 1919KN in high grade

1926 modfied effigy in mid to high grade.

Incidentally, Tony Clayton's site may be a bit out of date for prices, but he has some fantastic coins pictured. See here

Edited June 3, 2012 by 1949threepence

[Accumulator]

Does anyone know of a good list of major copper (well bronze) rarities to keep an eye out for? I really don't seriously collect copper (I'm more for the silver side) but what are some good years and major die varieties to look out for that are worth significant amounts of money (as in, greater than like $15-20)

The reason that I ask is that I've found lots of pre-decimal copper at antique shops and other places priced as curiosities ($2-5 per penny, $1-3 for half-pennies, $1-2 for farthings) and most are fairly low grade (and some have corrosion on them)

Now of course, for common dates/varieties these in no way would be collectible, but if there was a rare die variety in there it would be worth purchasing.

The most common ones I've found are "ship" half-pennies, George V and VI farthings and pennies from bun head onwards. Chances are I'm not going to have my loupe with me to check for micro-varieties so just the major ones that are easily seen with the naked eye and would be visible on a worn coin.

Copper

1849 penny

Bronze Pennies

1860 "mule": beaded border on one side, toothed on the other

1862 8 over 6

1863 with die No below date

1864 (plain or crosslet) in EF or above. Common in lower grades, exceedingly scarce in higher.

1865 5 over 3, again in EF or above. Not that scarce in lower to mid grade (fantastic example on this site)

1869 once again in EF or above. Although considered the "Holy Grail" of pennies, in truth it's not too scarce in lower grades.

1871 in high grade

1875H in high grade

1876H wide date in high grade

1877 narrow date

1879 narrow date

1881 (quite difficult to get in any grade, took me a long time)

1895 with trident 2mm from "P" of penny, in high grade

1918KN & 1919KN in high grade

1926 modfied effigy in mid to high grade.

Incidentally, Tony Clayton's site may be a bit out of date for prices, but he has some fantastic coins pictured. See here

Colin Cooke seems to have recently added a few nice pennies. Lots of money though!