Value of a 1900 half sovereign?

[impgreene]

Whilst sorting through my belongings I came across my childhood coin collection that had lain untouched for 20 years.

One of the coins, a 1900 half sovereign (if my memory serves me correctly) is pictured below.

I wondered if anyone knew approximately what it is worth?

Thanks for any help you can give.

[Peckris]

Whilst sorting through my belongings I came across my childhood coin collection that had lain untouched for 20 years.

One of the coins, a 1900 half sovereign (if my memory serves me correctly) is pictured below.

I wondered if anyone knew approximately what it is worth?

Thanks for any help you can give.

You sure that's a genuine half sov? It doesn't seem to have the right colour, it looks almost like a bronze lustred copy. If it was genuine with an Aussie mint (M P or S) it would be rare and valuable. Otherwise it would be bullion value.

[impgreene]

This was my Grandfather's, who passed it to my mother, who then passed it to me when I started collecting coins as a child - so it has probably been in my family for the best part of 70 years (at least).

I wouldn't get too worried about the colour, I have had real trouble taking the pictures and I think the lustre is a combination of me trying to take a picture with a camera that was bought because it was very good for scenery (and conversely, as a result, bad at close-ups) and my lack of experience in taking pictures of coins (for instance, the coin was almost touching the lens when I took the picture).

I would put the odds of it being genuine at 95%+.

What do you think it would be worth if it is real?

Thanks again for your help.

[impgreene]

I had another look at the coin 'side-by-side' with the photo, the photo is a completely different colour, the coin doesn't have a bronze lustre at all (it's shinny gold).

Cheers.

[Peter]

I had another look at the coin 'side-by-side' with the photo, the photo is a completely different colour, the coin doesn't have a bronze lustre at all (it's shinny gold).

Cheers.

Its worth bullion approx £130 or so.

[Peckris]

I had another look at the coin 'side-by-side' with the photo, the photo is a completely different colour, the coin doesn't have a bronze lustre at all (it's shinny gold).

Cheers.

Ok, that's fair enough. Well assuming it's London Mint (no mintmark) then it's worth bullion value, but gold is pretty high right now, so if you can get a quote on that, it's worth its weight in gold!

[impgreene]

Where would be the best place to look for a mint mark? Would it be obvious?

I have to say I have not seen anything I would consider an unusual mark, but I will have a look if you can help me with a few directions.

Cheers,

Stephen

[impgreene]

In that case I think I'll dig out the hundred of 3d bits I bought 20 years ago and get myself off to the pawnbroker!

Thanks for your help.

[impgreene]

I had a look on the internet for where the Australian mint mark should be - and found this web page

http://www.goldsovereigns.co.uk/1900sovereign.html

So, I had a look with my naked eye and couldn't see much.

However, I took a very high res close image, see below.

Am I mad, or does that look like an 'S' of the Syndey Mint above the date (and in the place suggested on the web page above)?

Thanks for humouring me!

[Accumulator]

That's an S for Sydney and I also notice there's no BP in the exergue. I only have Marsh for sovereigns, not half-sovereigns so can't look it up but sure that most have the BP? S is certainly more sought after and more valuable, but only really in a better grade.

[impgreene]

Thanks for your help, I had noticed the BP in the exergue on other photos, and it is definitely missing on mine.

Does anyone know;

- what the BP is representative of?

- what grade you think the sovereign is?

- what an approx. value is for a 1900 Sydney Mint sovereign with no BP stamp?

Thanks for your help.

[Nick]

Thanks for your help, I had noticed the BP in the exergue on other photos, and it is definitely missing on mine.

Does anyone know;

- what the BP is representative of?

- what grade you think the sovereign is?

- what an approx. value is for a 1900 Sydney Mint sovereign with no BP stamp?

Thanks for your help.

1) B.P. are the initials of the designer of the famous George and Dragon reverse - Benedetto Pistrucci.

2) Perhaps gF to aVF.

3) Spink catalogue for Half Sovereign without BP in exergue (S.3881A) has prices £100, £125, £395, £2150 for F, VF, EF and UNC respectively.

[Accumulator]

Thanks for your help, I had noticed the BP in the exergue on other photos, and it is definitely missing on mine.

Does anyone know;

- what the BP is representative of?

- what grade you think the sovereign is?

- what an approx. value is for a 1900 Sydney Mint sovereign with no BP stamp?

Thanks for your help.

1) B.P. are the initials of the designer of the famous George and Dragon reverse - Benedetto Pistrucci.

2) Perhaps gF to aVF.

3) Spink catalogue for Half Sovereign without BP in exergue (S.3881A) has prices £100, £125, £395, £2150 for F, VF, EF and UNC respectively.

Nick, I think you'll find those prices are for the 1897 without BP. 2011 Spink doesn't list the 1900 without the initials, hence it may be an interesting find but need Marsh to confirm.

Edited October 23, 2011 by Accumulator

[Rob]

Thanks for your help, I had noticed the BP in the exergue on other photos, and it is definitely missing on mine.

Does anyone know;

- what the BP is representative of?

- what grade you think the sovereign is?

- what an approx. value is for a 1900 Sydney Mint sovereign with no BP stamp?

Thanks for your help.

1) B.P. are the initials of the designer of the famous George and Dragon reverse - Benedetto Pistrucci.

2) Perhaps gF to aVF.

3) Spink catalogue for Half Sovereign without BP in exergue (S.3881A) has prices £100, £125, £395, £2150 for F, VF, EF and UNC respectively.

Nick, I think you'll find those prices are for the 1897 without BP. 2011 Spink doesn't list the 1900 without the initials, hence it may be an interesting find but need Marsh to confirm.

Marsh (half-sovereign 2nd ed.) notes at the top of p.42 that "B.P. for Benedetto Pistrucci do not appear on this type". This would suggest that all old head halves are without BP and that the initials are the exception. Not being into half sovereigns, I can't comment, but perhaps someone can add to this. Sovereigns do have BP in the exergue. Neither the image in Spink, nor my 1893 London half have BP, so it is quite possible that the half section in Spink was written assuming that BP is normal as per the sovereign, but when the 1897 was added to the list later, the person suggested inclusion noted the BP was missing having read the text to assume that BP was present. Note that S3879A is a Melbourne 1896 similarly noted as being without BP.

If people can do a check on all the images they can find for veiled head halves and can confirm the total absence of BP, it would be worth getting Spink to remove S3879A and S3881A from the list with a note added to S3878 that BP is not present. I would suggest that Marsh is probably right on such a fundamental point. We could do all this today and get in touch with Phil tomorrow if correct, in time for inclusion in the next edition.

Edited October 23, 2011 by Rob

[argentumandcoins]

BP does not appear on the reverse of the veiled heads. Marsh has the mintage at 130,000 and rates it as Rare.

I'm with Peter and would say it has a value at only a little over bullion due to condition.

Halves are not nearly as well collected as Fulls and this reflects in the prices made by mediocre pieces that are rare.

[Accumulator]

What would we do without you Rob! I think you're right, doing a simple google image search and being careful not to confuse photos of half and full sovereigns produces numerous examples, all without the initials so Spink is misleading.

Edited October 23, 2011 by Accumulator

[Rob]

What would we do without you Rob! I think you're right, doing a simple google image search and being careful not to confuse photos of half and full sovereigns produces numerous examples, all without the initials so Spink is misleading.

Thanks Accumulator. If anyone else wants to do similar searches and report the results in this thread to confirm or repudiate the suspicion, I'll have a word with Phil tomorrow if necessary.

[Nick]

Nick, I think you'll find those prices are for the 1897 without BP. 2011 Spink doesn't list the 1900 without the initials, hence it may be an interesting find but need Marsh to confirm.

Yes, you're right. My apologies. I really should wear my glasses more often!

[Peckris]

Well that seems to have sorted that out then!

It's a Sydney Mint variety, and the initials are not present on most half sovs it seems (probably too little space to include them). As for value, it would need to be calculated using catalogue values only as a guide. Gold bullion values are much higher than when the last ed. of Spink was published (unless someone has the 2012 edition yet?). If using an older edition, then do this (it's a bit complicated) :

1. look up the UNC prices of Elizabeth II sovs - they will be just a little above bullion

2. Note that values of Vic veiled head Sydney half sovs in VF (which yours is - average of obverse (+) and reverse (-) ) are roughly the same as this

3. As yours is a scarce variety, the values in EF and UNC will be way over bullion in multiples, so ignore what's listed

4. Your coin should be worth - very approximate - the bullion value of a sovereign (its own bullion value would be (half?) that)

That's a very very approximate guide indeed. You'd be better off waiting for the 2012 Spink and looking up the actual value in VF. Your nearest large library will have a copy.

[Peter]

Well that seems to have sorted that out then!

It's a Sydney Mint variety, and the initials are not present on most half sovs it seems (probably too little space to include them). As for value, it would need to be calculated using catalogue values only as a guide. Gold bullion values are much higher than when the last ed. of Spink was published (unless someone has the 2012 edition yet?). If using an older edition, then do this (it's a bit complicated) :

1. look up the UNC prices of Elizabeth II sovs - they will be just a little above bullion

2. Note that values of Vic veiled head Sydney half sovs in VF (which yours is - average of obverse (+) and reverse (-) ) are roughly the same as this

3. As yours is a scarce variety, the values in EF and UNC will be way over bullion in multiples, so ignore what's listed

4. Your coin should be worth - very approximate - the bullion value of a sovereign (its own bullion value would be (half?) that)

That's a very very approximate guide indeed. You'd be better off waiting for the 2012 Spink and looking up the actual value in VF. Your nearest large library will have a copy.

I bet you Spink will sit on the fence regarding gold.Bullion value spot price on gold on which their valuation is based would help.

(& also for Ag)...I would be happy to apply Pecks method to the current Bullion value.

[impgreene]

I just want to say a big thank-you to all of you that have posted and helped, it has been very interesting to find out about the coin (and to be honest the value is secondary to that).

Thanks again.