1923 Florin Mule

[Peckris]

I'm just home. It had a blue stain dipped it in acetone which removed it (must have been PVC residue).

Here's the pictures:

I don't own a Davies but have ordered one from Rob.

Any opinions of variety?

I make it obv 3 davies 1752

Ditto - the I of GEORGIVS is to the left of a bead and the I of BRITT is not clearly to a bead.

Gary, your photo above hasn't resolved things really (not for me) - this may be partly due to wideangle curvature? For one thing, both your 1923s appear to show BRITT to a bead. Certainly, the top left is definitely a classic 'deep cut portrait'. The top right is too dark for me to make out which it is. The top centre is ambiguous-looking, maybe because of wear? But both 1923s APPEAR to be the same obverse (give or take the odd pointing), i.e. the shallow portrait. The one I want to study more closely is the top centre 1920 - I'm not sure which obverse I think it is right at this moment.

[DaveG38]

Here are the three 1920 Florins and both 1923 Florins

Gary,

Looking at your photos of the five florins, whatever the outcome of the 'pointings' debate, there is no doubt in my mind that the 1923 with obverse 2 has a smaller head than the one with obverse 3. Assuming that both coins on the bottom row of your photo are the same size as they appear to be, then the head on the right is definitely smaller than that on the left - this is the other differentiator that Davies uses. When I compared your mule on the website with a 1920 obverse 2 florin and a 1923 'normal' florin with obverse 3, I again found that the one on your website is the same size as a normal obverse 2 type. My conclusion, based on what I see is that there are two types as defined by Davies. However, there may be another type and it would be useful to try and establish this from all three differentiators for these types.

[Gary D]

Here are the three 1920 Florins and both 1923 Florins

Gary,

Looking at your photos of the five florins, whatever the outcome of the 'pointings' debate, there is no doubt in my mind that the 1923 with obverse 2 has a smaller head than the one with obverse 3. Assuming that both coins on the bottom row of your photo are the same size as they appear to be, then the head on the right is definitely smaller than that on the left - this is the other differentiator that Davies uses. When I compared your mule on the website with a 1920 obverse 2 florin and a 1923 'normal' florin with obverse 3, I again found that the one on your website is the same size as a normal obverse 2 type. My conclusion, based on what I see is that there are two types as defined by Davies. However, there may be another type and it would be useful to try and establish this from all three differentiators for these types.

Here is the 1920, middle of top three.

[Gary D]

And the 1923 obv 2

[Peckris]

Here are the three 1920 Florins and both 1923 Florins

Gary,

Looking at your photos of the five florins, whatever the outcome of the 'pointings' debate, there is no doubt in my mind that the 1923 with obverse 2 has a smaller head than the one with obverse 3. Assuming that both coins on the bottom row of your photo are the same size as they appear to be, then the head on the right is definitely smaller than that on the left - this is the other differentiator that Davies uses. When I compared your mule on the website with a 1920 obverse 2 florin and a 1923 'normal' florin with obverse 3, I again found that the one on your website is the same size as a normal obverse 2 type. My conclusion, based on what I see is that there are two types as defined by Davies. However, there may be another type and it would be useful to try and establish this from all three differentiators for these types.

Here is the 1920, middle of top three.

And the 1923 obv 2

It all comes down to pictures! Looking at the separate photos of the 1920 Obverse 2 and the 1923 variety, I think I'm going to have to revise my opinion. I really cannot see any difference between them, except the size of the rim (and that's confused by the off-centre strike of the 1920). The photo you've just put up of the 1923 is the clearest one yet, and makes comparisons easier. The "5 florins picture" doesn't really prove anything due to the wideangle curvature involved, and the varying focus <=> sharpness.

I'd only offer one sure conclusion from this exercise: it's much harder to tell the two obverses apart - especially if there has been some wear - on florins than it is on halfcrowns and shillings.

But I would now be inclined to say that the 1923 is (Carlsbergly..) the pre-1920 obverse.

[Peckris]

And this overlay I think proves it beyond all Carlsberg :

You can just see the 1920 off-centre rim protruding on the right, but in all other respects it seems an exact match.

[Benny who]

Could you use the layering feature with Opacity,similar to that used with the 1903 open 3 Penny to tell the differences?

[Peckris]

Could you use the layering feature with Opacity,similar to that used with the 1903 open 3 Penny to tell the differences?

That's exactly what I did. The 1920 is a 50% overlay on top of the 1923. You can see from the background where I've rotated the 1920 to get the overlay to match precisely (on the legend). Because the two coins match so perfectly, the only part of the 1920 that shows up is the rim between 12 o'clock and 3 o'clock.