1851 Half Sov in hand pix

[azda]

Ok ladies, here is the in hand hi magnification of the Half Sov 1851. 1 is a 60x mag and the other is 200x

[azda]

and the 200x

[Rob]

The picture says it all. No added value for just a double punched letter.

[azda]

The picture says it all. No added value for just a double punched letter.

Quoted in Marsh Rob or not, 1851

[Rob]

The picture says it all. No added value for just a double punched letter.

Quoted in Marsh Rob or not, 1851

There was no reason for Marsh to quote a double cut letter because he was listing years, mintages and other such information. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of coins in the various denominations with recut letters and so would really only be of interest to the die study specialist. I'm sure some of these dies are very rare, but would only add value if there were a reasonable number of collectors specialising to such a degree. Half sovereigns are not a widely collected denomination, so I can't see there being any premium. Overcut dates where the die has been reused in subsequent years will always have a following because date runs are more popular; legend errors too to a slightly lesser extent, but double cut characters aren't errors as such and so not of special interest to all bar a handful of people.

[azda]

Its strange them Why spink would list variants around 1851 but Not 1851 itself. There's a varianz for roman 1 and also a over v, so of marsh has nö Time them Why List These? Excuse the spelling, am in the sbahn using a New phone

[azda]

Also, Why overstamp the v in the 1st Place, the 1 underneaths Position Looks perfectly ok? Just questions, i Know how u hatte Variants Rob lol Could it Be that its actually an A? In faxt the more i Look at it, the V in Top Looks more out of Position than the 1 underneath

Edited September 22, 2010 by azda

[Red Riley]

Also, Why overstamp the v in the 1st Place, the 1 underneaths Position Looks perfectly ok? Just questions, i Know how u hatte Variants Rob lol Could it Be that its actually an A?

But it is way out of line, the foreman (or whoever) will have spotted it and insisted that it be re-cut. What Rob says is perfectly true, there has to be a substantial following for a type of variety to make it valuable and letters re-cut letters seldom fire the juices. There is one exception that springs to mind and that is the 1860 'N over sideways N' penny but that is 90 degrees out whereas this is maybe 5 or 6. If you wanted to try your arm, maybe advertise it as 'V over misaligned V - unrecorded variety' and see if you get any interest.

[Rob]

Its strange them Why spink would list variants around 1851 but Not 1851 itself. There's a varianz for roman 1 and also a over v, so of marsh has nö Time them Why List These? Excuse the spelling, am in the sbahn using a New phone

They list Roman 1's, letters over different letters etc if there is space and if a coin has passed through a sale with sufficient interest shown to justify inclusion. There are too many minor variations to include all which is why they scaled back the Charles I provincial coins and included more penny varieties. Those listed will reflect collector demand, so really it is a case of Spink following the crowd with what they collect with the greatest enthusiasm. Varieties are also included by individuals suggesting their inclusion. For example, a clear A instead of a V would be reasonable because it is a genuine error.

I don't hate minor variants but I do think they are overhyped. If you listed V over V, what would happen when you get the same variety but in a slightly different position? Do you list them all as V over V with all bar the first described as being in a slightly different position? How do you differentiate without expanding the book exponentially to allow for the necessary illustrations? To me, it is just a normal variation found in die cutting because nobody is perfect and sometimes the multiple punches(which is required in most instances to produce a character of sufficient depth) aren't perfectly aligned. But, if the market wants to pay a premium for a minor double punch variety then I would happily increase my price to satisfy demand - that's business.

I don't think it's an A because there is no sign of the cross bar.

[azda]

Im throwing cautiom to the Wind Herr and suggest the reason for nö crossbar is because of the erpichtes V which is distinctly out of line and Ortband the reason was to Cover the crossbar. Of we Look at the (we Shall say V for now) underneath, that looks more in position than the 1 in Top, i'm suggesting, to Hide the crossbar

[Rob]

Im throwing cautiom to the Wind Herr and suggest the reason for nö crossbar is because of the erpichtes V which is distinctly out of line and Ortband the reason was to Cover the crossbar. Of we Look at the (we Shall say V for now) underneath, that looks more in position than the 1 in Top, i'm suggesting, to Hide the crossbar

The correct alignment of the letters would have taken precedence over the desire to hide any crossbar.

[azda]

Ok, so what am asking is, is the V underneath Not already in alignement? Of so Why the Need to stamp over it if it weren't to hide something?

[Rob]

Ok, so what am asking is, is the V underneath Not already in alignement? Of so Why the Need to stamp over it if it weren't to hide something?

I think both are out of alignment.

[azda]

Ok, maybe i'm being biased Here a Little them, but i thought the 1 underneath was in fact alligned

[£400 for a Penny ?]

Agree that the letter underneath is in the correct alignment and the overstamp isn't.

Perhaps it was done to cover up the fact that an inverted A had been used by mistake ? Can't think of another reason at the moment.

This might be a good coin to send off to CGS ? If you can get it into a slab saying it's V over A then I reckon you might see it's value increase somewhat. Then again they might say re-cut V, not interested, but, if you don't try....

[azda]

Well i thought the ae reason 400, There's nö logical reason if in fact the 1st V is alligned. I am Found to send it off, but 1st, more healthy Debate on it and a better Look at it from me, only has 10mins this morning before work

[£400 for a Penny ?]

Well i thought the ae reason 400, There's nö logical reason if in fact the 1st V is alligned. I am Found to send it off, but 1st, more healthy Debate on it and a better Look at it from me, only has 10mins this morning before work

Mate, your new phone stinks....

[azda]

Lol, thanks 400, it's a german iPhone and sometimes it inserts German words

[Rob]

Agree that the letter underneath is in the correct alignment and the overstamp isn't.

Perhaps it was done to cover up the fact that an inverted A had been used by mistake ? Can't think of another reason at the moment.

This might be a good coin to send off to CGS ? If you can get it into a slab saying it's V over A then I reckon you might see it's value increase somewhat. Then again they might say re-cut V, not interested, but, if you don't try....

If CGS or anyone else slabs that as V over inverted A when there isn't any sign of the crossbar even at x200 magnification then they are risking their credibility. Granted that would increase the value slightly, but I think you would struggle even more to convince a purchaser that it has an underlying A where you can't make it out in the hand without the plastic to distort it. If you are going to say it could be an A but it's hidden, I suggest it you submit it as a blundered Q

[HistoricCoinage]

...it's a german iPhone and sometimes it inserts German words

I like it, it makes for more amusing reading.

Im throwing cautiom to the Wind Herr...

[azda]

I'll take a picture of the OBV tomorrow and Look at how hi the A bar is and then See if its possible that the overstamp could cover this

[scott]

definatly over something.

what are the thoughts on this? I over I?

[azda]

I think everyone is in Agreement that its over something, what we, or i should find out is, if the V under is in correct alignment, then Why overstamp it? Makes more sense then the inverted A theory. There is also early Dated half sovs with inverted As listet in spink i think, would Be interested to compare

Edited September 22, 2010 by azda

[£400 for a Penny ?]

what are the thoughts on this? I over I?

Can't see it Scott, not saying it isn't there, but photo isn't the best.

[Hussulo]

I think everyone is in Agreement that its over something, what we, or i should find out is, if the V under is in correct alignment, then Why overstamp it?

But V isn't the only letter that has been over stamped. In the first picture VIC all look over stamped. Perhaps they were over stamping the letters due to the die wear and the V was stamped slightly squint the second time?