Warwick and Warwick April sale

[Mat]

If anyone went to the auction today please could they let me know how much the following lots sold for:

Lot 22 - mixture of crowns

Lot 184 - Currency issue 1839 half crown

Lot 188 - 1841 half crown

W&W take for ever in publishing the results and informing buyers/sellers of outcome.

Thanks

Mat

[VickySilver]

Also refresh our memories as to the putative grades on the 1839 and 1841 2/6s please.

[Mat]

I phoned W&W this morning:

1839 went for £1750 hammer price

1841 went for £1050 hammer price

That is shocking for the 1841 it was in dreadful condition, here are the links:

http://www.warwickandwarwick.com/catalogue/pages/pics.asp?id=155731&estimatelow=550

http://www.warwickandwarwick.com/catalogue/pages/pics.asp?id=155736&estimatelow=100

You will have to be quick though as they usually remove the online catalogue straight after the auction.

[choolie]

Yes that is truly shocking!

[Mat]

I cant believe it, I had an internet bid on it for £160 lol

[VickySilver]

How on earth did they determine that the 1839 was currency? Both prices seem high, are they real and I wonder who purchased them.

[1949threepence]

I phoned W&W this morning:

1839 went for £1750 hammer price

1841 went for £1050 hammer price

That is shocking for the 1841 it was in dreadful condition, here are the links:

http://www.warwickandwarwick.com/catalogue/pages/pics.asp?id=155731&estimatelow=550

http://www.warwickandwarwick.com/catalogue/pages/pics.asp?id=155736&estimatelow=100

You will have to be quick though as they usually remove the online catalogue straight after the auction.

Unreal. Someone with more money than sense.

[Rob]

How on earth did they determine that the 1839 was currency? Both prices seem high, are they real and I wonder who purchased them.

Full credit to the person who was able to establish they were halfcrowns.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Rob

[Peckris]

Sic transit gloria mundi. Oh for the days when W&W were conservative in their grading! I'd grade that 1841 as barely Fair, not a hint of Fine anywhere near it

As for the prices - truly shocking. Even a deliberately low estimate (which is normal for auction houses) shouldn't be any less than 1/3 to 1/2 of a confident upper bid.

[choolie]

I take it that these are a rare date for these coins?

[Mat]

They are quite rare, book guide is about £700 for 1839 in F and £500 for the 1841 in F, the 1839 is apparently rated 11-20 known specimens but in the recent past London coins have sold currency issues in GVF for about £2500 - £3500, so for the 1839 at w&w to sell for £1750 + commission is tremendous. The mintage on the 1841 is about 41,000, thats about 20,000 less than the 1905 half crowns which as I am sure you know sell for silly prices.

I bid £900 on it in the hope to sell for about £1300, and £160 on the 1841 in the hope to sell for about £300. I think the normal collector would not be interested in paying much more than that.

[Mat]

"An 1839 half crown, plain fillets, ww incuse, fine / good fine, estimated £550, achieved a superb £2,012. £1,207 was paid for the rare date 1841 half crown, fair / fine, which was estimated at a modest £100. The best result for a Victorian sovereign was the £2,530 paid for an 1839 issue, in very fine grade, which bore a pre sale estimate of £1,000."

[VickySilver]

Okay Rob, that was a smart--- comment, but do agree with you anyway! There is NO way that money should have been paid for the 1839 at least since it may well have been a circulated proof. There are a plethora of varieties and even major disagreements between experts on uncirculated specimens of this date as to whether they are currency or proof (obviously they must have reeded edge). Even circulated proofs should carry a premium but not of this magnitude; still it took at least two bidders to produce this number! IMO (in my opinion) the value should have been established on this being a circulated proof.

1841 2/6s are a bit of a dilemma as they are rather scarce, even rare, in all states of preservation - if demand ever picked up for these Vicky bits prices could accelerate through the roof. I am rather a fan of this date, might be able to locate a EF truly graded specimen if somebody had the right money though...

[£400 for a Penny ?]

Silver is not my thing so I'm not sure what my opinion is worth.

It would in a funny kind of way be comforting to think WW were pulling our legs, but they're not. Mad, mad prices are being paid (at auction) for what I would consider junk, however rare it may be.

This is happening too often now, there is someone behind it, has to be the same person or persons.

Somebody out there knows what's going on.....

[Mat]

Silver is not my thing so I'm not sure what my opinion is worth.

It would in a funny kind of way be comforting to think WW were pulling our legs, but they're not. Mad, mad prices are being paid (at auction) for what I would consider junk, however rare it may be.

This is happening too often now, there is someone behind it, has to be the same person or persons.

Somebody out there knows what's going on.....

Well, to make it relative to copper and bronze in that respect, you might as well sling these two half crowns in the same pile that you might want to sling that £23,000 vicky penny with the slender 3 into.

[VickySilver]

OK, Mat lets not go there with that infernal slender 3 penny. That is the most egregious example of exactly what you are saying. I think it makes these two halfcrowns a bargain.

[Coppers]

OK, Mat lets not go there with that infernal slender 3 penny. That is the most egregious example of exactly what you are saying. I think it makes these two halfcrowns a bargain.

Here are some links to the London Coins photos of that penny. Wonder what it would bring if it ever came up at auction again.

Obverse

Reverse

[£400 for a Penny ?]

Well. interestingly, but still absurdly, CGS value coin No 8218 at £25,000.

Maybe even they are embarrassed ?

[1949threepence]

OK, Mat lets not go there with that infernal slender 3 penny. That is the most egregious example of exactly what you are saying. I think it makes these two halfcrowns a bargain.

Here are some links to the London Coins photos of that penny. Wonder what it would bring if it ever came up at auction again.

Obverse

Reverse

Well. interestingly, but still absurdly, CGS value coin No 8218 at £25,000.

Maybe even they are embarrassed ?

The same worn 1863 coin as shown in the pics ? Unbelievable ~ surely no-one would be quite so stupid as to pay that much for a slimline "3" ? I'm astounded they've got the cheek to state that value. Are they losing touch with reality, one wonders ?

I know bronze coinage from this era is currently commanding a high premium, but £25k, c'mon. You wouldn't have to pay much more for a 1933 penny

Edited April 17, 2010 by 1949threepence

[£400 for a Penny ?]

It's bulging eyed, blancmange brained insanity.

It makes one wonder if there is someone putting together an investment portfolio of coins for some Sheikh or other, who clearly doesn't mind stringing his employer along.

These prices CANNOT be true market value.

[Red Riley]

It's bulging eyed, blancmange brained insanity.

It makes one wonder if there is someone putting together an investment portfolio of coins for some Sheikh or other, who clearly doesn't mind stringing his employer along.

These prices CANNOT be true market value.

What gets me is that it isn't even a particularly interesting variety. The '3' is a couple of microns thinner than normal. Well great. I've said before that such minor varieties don't float my boat. Apologies if I step on anyone's toes but to me this is 'geek collecting'. Clearly though there are at least two of them out there with infinitely deep pockets.

With this in mind, how much do you reckon a really interesting penny such as 1933, 1952 or 1954 would go for? First seven figure penny anyone?

[£400 for a Penny ?]

With this in mind, how much do you reckon a really interesting penny such as 1933, 1952 or 1954 would go for? First seven figure penny anyone?

I've just fished out the London Coins catalogue and it was estimated at £5K-£15K

Don't know what a 1933 would go for, it seems to be particularly obscure (and to me too uninteresting) micro varieties in shocking condition that are attracting all the interest, so maybe it wouldn't blow the nutter's hair back ?

Fortunately, so far anyway, I haven't noticed any price creep getting through to dealers lists, it just seems to be the auction houses.