Streaky lustre from 1921 to 1926

[Peckris]

I expect many of you will already have noticed that the lustre on pennies between 1921 to 1926 is often very streaky, and can be a much paler colour too. Instead of wearing from the high points and then gradually disappearing until it lingers only in the legend, these pennies often show the lustre disappearing in streaks, totally unrelated to wear. The remaining lustre looks as though it's been applied with a paintbrush, with the streaks running in the same direction.

Anyone ever heard an explanation of why this should be so? (It may be true of halfpennies too, but I don't see many with good lustre and those I do see don't seem to have this problem).

This penny is fairly typical I think.

[VickySilver]

I believe the current thought is that this is due to alloy mixture and the variable oxidation rates of it. When it is a bit uneven there often may occur the so-called "woodgrain" effect.

[scott]

yea i have seen that, got some nice pieces with that metal mix error, not even lustrous sometimes

i acctually love the look of that effect though

this is my fave one

but i have found it on coins later then that

1932 farthing

[Mat]

When the mint darkened their coins to stop the ghosting from happening... maybe its related to that? I cannot remember the dates which they did that off the top of my head, but maybe during certain periods they tried different methods of darkening and as a result the streaking lusture occured?

Or after reading this site on morgan dollars: http://www.coingrading.com/lustre1.html maybe its the dies. Apparently different dated morgan dollars tend to develop patterns of lusture.

Mat

[£400 for a Penny ?]

Just 1921-26 ?

Here's a 1919.....

[VickySilver]

You can find Vickie coppers and Edward VII as well...

[Red Riley]

I believe the current thought is that this is due to alloy mixture and the variable oxidation rates of it. When it is a bit uneven there often may occur the so-called "woodgrain" effect.

Yes, that's what I heard. The worst years in my recollection are 1920 and 1921 but can occur outside these dates too. In most cases it's not too detrimental and can be a feature rather than a fault.

[1949threepence]

It is noticeable in the early to mid 1920's ones, but as others have said, does occur outside these dates. Presumably due to the mixture of alloys used, and the subsequent effect of the environment on individual coins.

I think some call it "marbling", don't they.

While we're on this suibject, does anybody know how an individual fingerprint gets embedded as a permanent feature on a coin ? I've seen it often, and wondered why.

Edited August 4, 2009 by 1949threepence

[Colin G.]

It is noticeable in the early to mid 1920's ones, but as others have said, does occur outside these dates. Presumably due to the mixture of alloys used, and the subsequent effect of the environment on individual coins.

I think some call it "marbling", don't they.

While we're on this suibject, does anybody know how an individual fingerprint gets embedded as a permanent feature on a coin ? I've seen it often, and wondered why.

I believe its something to do with the salts in the sweat. I tried an experiment on a 2p piece from a specimen set, and planted a nice big thumbprint on it, it took about 6 months for it to remove the lustre, so the bad thing is if the dealer handles your nice BU coin incorrectly, it could be 6 months before you find out!!

Edited August 4, 2009 by Colin G.

[scott]

the ghosting never went away, i have a nice 1935 with ghosting very evident

found a couple more

can see the colour differance.

Edited August 4, 2009 by scott

[scott]

even as late as 1953

[Peckris]

Interesting replies guys. I must say, I had never seen it on 1919 pennies or earlier (but there it is...) and certainly not as late as 1953! (but there it is). I suppose the Mint could well have experimented with different bronze alloys from 1920, enthused by their efforts with the silver versions. Or maybe they simply changed the formula used to provide the lustre.

There wasn't any darkening of pennies in the period afaik. The first was in 1934 I believe? Though they had certainly used it on farthings to great effect from 1897 to 1918.

Scott, can you upload a scan of your 1935 ghosted reverse ? I've never seen George V ghosting post-modification - I'd be fascinated to see it.

[scott]

yea here you go. i got this only a few days ago for £2 off the bay

[Peckris]

yea here you go. i got this only a few days ago for £2 off the bay

Nice one! You got a bit of a bargain there I'd say - good value for a normal Unc 1935 but you got ghosting thrown in for good measure. Thanks for posting it.

[£400 for a Penny ?]

Well now, look at that ?

Never seen that before - now I want one.

[1949threepence]

It is noticeable in the early to mid 1920's ones, but as others have said, does occur outside these dates. Presumably due to the mixture of alloys used, and the subsequent effect of the environment on individual coins.

I think some call it "marbling", don't they.

While we're on this suibject, does anybody know how an individual fingerprint gets embedded as a permanent feature on a coin ? I've seen it often, and wondered why.

I believe its something to do with the salts in the sweat. I tried an experiment on a 2p piece from a specimen set, and planted a nice big thumbprint on it, it took about 6 months for it to remove the lustre, so the bad thing is if the dealer handles your nice BU coin incorrectly, it could be 6 months before you find out!!

Thanks, Colin.

[1949threepence]

Well now, look at that ?

Never seen that before - now I want one.

Not as late as 1935, I've not either.

[£400 for a Penny ?]

Maybe the 'small head' didn't crack ghosting after all and that is why subsequent portraiture is so disappointing - well, in my opinion it is.....

I shall have to keep an eye out for an example - good spot Sir.

[DaveG38]

When I get time I will go through my Coin Monthly mags from the 1970s. There are articles in there regarding ghosting, die faults, varieties and other errors and from memory, ghosting was never entirely eliminated on the George V series.

[VickySilver]

Some have postulated (and I agree) that the problem with fingerprints is not the oil or electrolytes in the sweat directly, but rather the action of bacteria on the oil that generates acidic metabolites that selectively oxidize the contact points from the print.

[Red Riley]

Some have postulated (and I agree) that the problem with fingerprints is not the oil or electrolytes in the sweat directly, but rather the action of bacteria on the oil that generates acidic metabolites that selectively oxidize the contact points from the print.

... which would account for the earlier post saying that said fingerprints take 6 months to show up. Is the answer to dip all your newly acquired BU coins in Toilet Duck?

Anyway, we've had some good and interesting discussions on here over the last couple of weeks which haven't involved the question 'how much is such and so worth...'. Well done everybody, keep it up.

[Peckris]

Anyway, we've had some good and interesting discussions on here over the last couple of weeks which haven't involved the question 'how much is such and so worth...'. Well done everybody, keep it up.

So... a 1935 penny with ghosting. Well I never! How much is that worth?

[£400 for a Penny ?]

Anyway, we've had some good and interesting discussions on here over the last couple of weeks which haven't involved the question 'how much is such and so worth...'. Well done everybody, keep it up.

So... a 1935 penny with ghosting. Well I never! How much is that worth?

Don't bait the man so soon after dinnertime...

Have to say that I have mellowed on streaky lustre, rainbow toning and even a 'well done' fingerprint can be attractive on the right coin.

[scott]

no idea, its oinly a minor error piece, so not much more then normal, still rather cool.

i love toning, my 1953 penny has streaky lustre AND toning, which is why i got it.

[Peckris]

I generally love good toning, better than an untoned coin. Especially older silver, but bronze can tone nicely too. I'm not yet converted to streaky lustre though, and as for fingerprints ...

While on this subject I will have to scan my 1855 penny for you - it's EF, but is a uniform dull dark grey colour all over, rather like tarnished pewter. It's distinctly odd looking, but not unattractive.