1864 farthing with unusual date. 1 over 1 and 4 that is both plain and with serif

[DmitryNYC]

Hi, i’m wondering if this is a known variety or just an oddball. The 1 in the date is over another clearly separated 1 and the 4 appears to be both the plain and serif version at the same time. Any insight is much appreciated 🙏

[jelida]

Just an oddball. Letters and digits on worn/filled dies were often repaired by re-punching, and not surprisingly these were often slightly misplaced. Of little extra interest unless the wrong punch has been used or the misplacement is extreme.

As for the ‘4’ it may just be a die flaw.

Jerry

[Peckris 2]

Just to add a bit more: the first few years of the changeover to bronze saw a helluva lot of repunching of date digits and legend letters. Bronze is a harder metal than copper, and the coins were thinner in size, so dies got worn relatively quickly. As well as that, the Mint is reported to have experienced a lot of problems caused by the change of metal, which the huge number of varieties (major, minor, and micro) in  the first few years can attest to.  

[Rob]

5 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

Just to add a bit more: the first few years of the changeover to bronze saw a helluva lot of repunching of date digits and legend letters. Bronze is a harder metal than copper, and the coins were thinner in size, so dies got worn relatively quickly. As well as that, the Mint is reported to have experienced a lot of problems caused by the change of metal, which the huge number of varieties (major, minor, and micro) in  the first few years can attest to.  

On the plus side, a lot of the flan issues were ironed out during the decimal patterns by using various metal mixes and flan thicknesses. The presence of almost consistent flan lamination for certain varieties suggests an attempt to standardise minting conditions, more importantly on a series which didn't circulate. The engraving wasn't particularly divergent from the normal currency issues, but the minor fiddling with mixes and also presumably striking forces for the mixes will have helped immensely in arriving at the ideal.

[DmitryNYC]

Thanks guys, very informative 🙂

[absence of uniformity]

On 7/5/2026 at 11:08 AM, jelida said:

Just an oddball. Letters and digits on worn/filled dies were often repaired by re-punching, and not surprisingly these were often slightly misplaced. Of little extra interest unless the wrong punch has been used or the misplacement is extreme.

As for the ‘4’ it may just be a die flaw.

Jerry

Hi, could you please define extreme, @Martinminerva took the time before to explain this which I understood. But I cant help but notice these. Im posting this here I dont wish to hijack rather continue the conversation. Am I correct in thinking the image I have attached is not extreme. I can't see any trace of the right leg of the R.

I over R I dont think so.. but once I see these I kind of stuck on them. I know the early bronze coinage this is quite common. Where it could become interesting if it was I over R. Thanks

[Peckris 2]

40 minutes ago, absence of uniformity said:

Hi, could you please define extreme, @Martinminerva took the time before to explain this which I understood. But I cant help but notice these. Im posting this here I dont wish to hijack rather continue the conversation. Am I correct in thinking the image I have attached is not extreme. I can't see any trace of the right leg of the R.

I over R I dont think so.. but once I see these I kind of stuck on them. I know the early bronze coinage this is quite common. Where it could become interesting if it was I over R. Thanks

It looks to me like a repunched R (not extreme). The underlying letter looks offset to the left and a bit lower, and I can certainly see the traces of the right leg of the R 

[absence of uniformity]

3 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

It looks to me like a repunched R (not extreme). The underlying letter looks offset to the left and a bit lower, and I can certainly see the traces of the right leg of the R 

Ok thank you !

[jelida]

extreme

/ɪkˈstriːm/

The word extreme generally describes something that is of the greatest possible degree, intensity, or the farthest from the norm. It can act as either an adjective or a noun, with specific nuances depending on how it is used. [1, 2]
 

Pretty much ‘what it says on the tin’ to quote the old advert. Not easy set a reference point as to what any particular individual would consider extreme as there will be variation of opinion but with experience you will recognise degrees of misalignment of die repairs that are beyond the norm. I would for example consider the F10 ‘triple F’ Penny to be extreme, the side by side 1’s of 1861 and similar.