Peckris 2 Posted March 4 Posted March 4 The engraver was Bertram McKennial not de Saulles. I wonder where you get the R7 from? Quite a nice coin, between F and VF for me. Quote
Citizen H Posted March 5 Author Posted March 5 (edited) 12 hours ago, Peckris 2 said: The engraver was Bertram McKennial not de Saulles. I wonder where you get the R7 from? Quite a nice coin, between F and VF for me. I happened upon Numista.... when I first join the Forum I was depending on everyone to tell me everything.... I've been experiencing fatigue an its been difficult trying to get things right... I did happen upon Numista that seems a useful place to check out coins an lots of extra information, they lower down provided a Numista Rarity index: and a Bullion value: which is useful to know if buying worn out ones so you don't over pay.... I'm also trying to keep the forum tidy and add to my existing topic rather than keep opening new topic... I hope this help, all the very best "H" oh and thank you for the grading. its nice to know that, as another area I'm not sure about!?!?! Edited March 5 by Citizen H Quote
Citizen H Posted March 5 Author Posted March 5 more from my Silver coin (hoard) boot fair finds over the past 30 odd years. Victorian Shilling 1887 2nd portrait; 1st type Engraver: Leonard Charles Wyon, Rarity index: 9 Edward VII Shilling 1904 Engraver: George William de Saulles, Rarity index: 10 Quote
Citizen H Posted March 6 Author Posted March 6 (edited) more from my Silver coin (hoard) boot fair finds over the past 30 odd years. George II 1745 Older bust 1 Shilling Standard circulation coin Engraver: John Tanner Rarity index: 25 Edited March 6 by Citizen H Quote
Citizen H Posted March 6 Author Posted March 6 more from my Silver coin (hoard) boot fair finds over the past 30 odd years. Charles II 1684 4 Pence Standard circulation coin Engraver: John Roettier Rarity index: 40 Quote
Citizen H Posted March 6 Author Posted March 6 (edited) On 3/4/2025 at 9:58 PM, Peckris 2 said: The engraver was Bertram McKennial not de Saulles. I wonder where you get the R7 from? Quite a nice coin, between F and VF for me. Ahhh.... it seems that Obverse Engraver: Edgar Bertram MacKennal Reverse Engraver: George William de Saulles so only half wrong....or right depending what side of the coin you look at.... Edited March 6 by Citizen H Quote
Peckris 2 Posted March 12 Posted March 12 (edited) I don't know this Numista rarity index at all, but from what I can see it appears that the higher the number, the rarer the item. I was initially thrown by the R7, because the grading scale used by ESC (for example) only goes up to 7 which means extremely rare. Freeman goes up to 20 which is ‘possibly unique’. With your (fairly standard) Charles II 4d rated R40, I deduce that index may go up to 100? ETA: just Googled, and indeed it goes up to 100, but they say it’s based on how many Numista members have the item and how often it is up for ‘swap’, so fairly esoteric, I'd say! Edited March 12 by Peckris 2 1 Quote
Citizen H Posted March 12 Author Posted March 12 3 hours ago, Peckris 2 said: I don't know this Numista rarity index at all, but from what I can see it appears that the higher the number, the rarer the item. I was initially thrown by the R7, because the grading scale used by ESC (for example) only goes up to 7 which means extremely rare. Freeman goes up to 20 which is ‘possibly unique’. With your (fairly standard) Charles II 4d rated R40, I deduce that index may go up to 100? ETA: just Googled, and indeed it goes up to 100, but they say it’s based on how many Numista members have the item and how often it is up for ‘swap’, so fairly esoteric, I'd say! Crikey.... I didnt realise, I thought Numista was based on a rarity index listed else where ? I do have to say there was such a rarity index else where then please do share...id hate to be responsible for listing duff information, and like others i will find a rarity index of use. Peckris... many thanks for your input...others..... please disregard my coin rarity previously stated...its very possible to be not valid ......sorry! Quote
Peckris 2 Posted March 13 Posted March 13 23 hours ago, Citizen H said: Crikey.... I didnt realise, I thought Numista was based on a rarity index listed else where ? I do have to say there was such a rarity index else where then please do share...id hate to be responsible for listing duff information, and like others i will find a rarity index of use. Peckris... many thanks for your input...others..... please disregard my coin rarity previously stated...its very possible to be not valid ......sorry! I wouldn't go that far - the coins that you've used it on are as relatively scarce to each other as the index suggests. As far as general copper and bronze coins go, most people use Freeman / Peck / Gouby as reliable indicators of rarity. Spink’s catalogue’s values can be used as a vague indication of rarity but need to be taken with a huge pinch of salt, as popularity as well as scarcity affects values : for example, the 1902LT & 1912H pennies are nowhere near as scarce as their values suggest. Quote
Citizen H Posted March 13 Author Posted March 13 7 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said: I wouldn't go that far - the coins that you've used it on are as relatively scarce to each other as the index suggests. As far as general copper and bronze coins go, most people use Freeman / Peck / Gouby as reliable indicators of rarity. Spink’s catalogue’s values can be used as a vague indication of rarity but need to be taken with a huge pinch of salt, as popularity as well as scarcity affects values : for example, the 1902LT & 1912H pennies are nowhere near as scarce as their values suggest. Ahhhhhhhh,! the forum has been a wealth of information, Ive been sorting through 30 odd years of picking up silver coins and only now beginning to get coins in a date order these start off in 1200's into the 1800's over 18 different coins, ok so value is of interest however finding out the scarcer they are has out weighed this for my interest...its also nudge me into learning more about The Royals...... Numista has been a useful place that I will look to... many thanks Peckris 2, 1 Quote
Citizen H Posted March 20 Author Posted March 20 (edited) 1922 florin (already shown Feb 8th) ....... this seems to have issues, on looking closer it looks like brass is eating through, I understood these are .500 silver..... could it be this is fake? is there an age reaction that happens?? or am I misunderstanding??? Edited March 20 by Citizen H Quote
Paddy Posted March 20 Posted March 20 That is fairly common with the new 50% silver issues. I'm sure someone with more metallurgical knowledge can explain why, but it is not a fake or unusual. Quote
Sylvester Posted March 20 Posted March 20 (edited) It's not fake. It's a genuine coin. The 1920-22 issues were struck with manganese in the alloy, it's that metal which accounts for the awful yellowish streaking coins of this era. My Coincraft catalogue stated it was just 1920-22, but I've seen 1923 and 1925 coins in similar condition, so one wonders. They amended the alloy in 1922 to 50/50 silver to copper. It was modified again with the new coinage designs in 1927/8, they added something like zinc or tin to the copper portion, and coins from this point onwards tarnish much nicer imho. Edited March 20 by Sylvester 1 Quote
Citizen H Posted March 20 Author Posted March 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sylvester said: It's not fake. It's a genuine coin. The 1920-22 issues were struck with manganese in the alloy, it's that metal which accounts for the awful yellowish streaking coins of this era. My Coincraft catalogue stated it was just 1920-22, but I've seen 1923 and 1925 coins in similar condition, so one wonders. They amended the alloy in 1922 to 50/50 silver to copper. It was modified again with the new coinage designs in 1927/8, they added something like zinc or tin to the copper portion, and coins from this point onwards tarnish much nicer imho. ahhhhhhhhhhhh! so that answers another coin question, I wasn't keen on keeping certain coins (such as this one) but as its explainable and as a talking point will add it to the "on hold" pile for now.... I'm keeping the Counterstamp coin as this is fascinating me although others see it devalued.... Edited March 20 by Citizen H Quote
VickySilver Posted March 28 Posted March 28 By recall the British Museum has quite a series of coins demonstrating the alloy experiments and versions and that most were of the 1920-22 vintage. XRF scanning will yield metal breakdown of the surface metals at least and would be interesting if anyone had access to such an instrument....Results might readily be published in Coin News or other publications....I would be very interested to know results and have some really nice transitional pieces like the "duck-tailed" silver and others.... Quote
Citizen H Posted April 10 Author Posted April 10 (edited) 1887 Victorian Six Pence Victoria 2nd portrait; 1st reverse Jubilee Head.... Engraver: Joseph Edgar Boehm apparently some have a error 'R over V' in VICTORIA..... I read some where that this is referred to as the Withdrawn Type....anyone know of this? 2 out of my 3 seem to be in nice condition,....... 👍 Edited April 10 by Citizen H Quote
Sword Posted April 10 Posted April 10 The reverse design is very similar to that of the half sovereign and unscrupulous people started gold plating the sixpences to pass them off as gold coins. Hence the sixpences were "withdrawn" and replaced with new ones with "SIX PENCE" on the reverse. Some examples has the "R" of VICTORIA over another letter. "R over V" is one of the varieties due to the letter "V" being wrongly used initially and then corrected with the correct letter "R" afterwards. The other varieties being "R over B" and "R over I". They are interesting but none of the varieties are rare. I have brought an "R over B" a little while back. 2 Quote
Bruce Posted April 10 Posted April 10 On the other hand, for 1887 Sixpence, JEB on Truncation is the one that keeps an eye on. Quote
Citizen H Posted April 11 Author Posted April 11 13 hours ago, Bruce said: On the other hand, for 1887 Sixpence, JEB on Truncation is the one that keeps an eye on. are there any images of this to see? to be honest I didnt have a clue about this. cheers for the guidance 👍 Quote
Citizen H Posted April 11 Author Posted April 11 (edited) 1887 ½ Crown - Victoria 2nd portrait Jubilee this is a better one I now have than before. I did pick up on the ridge on the edge, there's no bash to the outer edge I then took a closer look and the SOIT has another strike to the letter I & T.... is this a rarity ? Edited April 11 by Citizen H Quote
Sword Posted April 11 Posted April 11 50 minutes ago, Citizen H said: are there any images of this to see? to be honest I didnt have a clue about this. cheers for the guidance 👍 https://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&searchterm=1887+Sixpence+Jeb+On+Truncation&searchtype=1&red=1 You can see some examples here. 1 1 Quote
Peckris 2 Posted April 11 Posted April 11 (edited) On 4/10/2025 at 2:45 PM, Citizen H said: 1887 Victorian Six Pence Victoria 2nd portrait; 1st reverse Jubilee Head.... Engraver: Joseph Edgar Boehm apparently some have a error 'R over V' in VICTORIA..... I read some where that this is referred to as the Withdrawn Type....anyone know of this? 2 out of my 3 seem to be in nice condition,....... 👍 Yes, as already mentioned this was withdrawn to avoid them being gold plated - but they're not rare, nor is the replacement reverse (which was introduced for William IV, and continued to be used until 1911 when the ‘lion on crown’ design replaced it.) You've got two very nice examples there, around EF. Edited April 11 by Peckris 2 1 Quote
Sword Posted April 15 Posted April 15 On 4/11/2025 at 12:32 PM, Citizen H said: 1887 ½ Crown - Victoria 2nd portrait Jubilee this is a better one I now have than before. I did pick up on the ridge on the edge, there's no bash to the outer edge I then took a closer look and the SOIT has another strike to the letter I & T.... is this a rarity ? Minor double entered letters wouldn't be considered as having any significance. If would become exciting if an incorrect letter was first applied. E.g. the 1820 S over T in "SOIT" is a rarity. 1 Quote
Citizen H Posted April 23 Author Posted April 23 More from the Hoard...... Half Crown 1700 William III 1st bust; modified large shields it has an odd grey tone to this, is this a common occurrence with coins from the 1700... or poor storage..... chucked in a box and shoved into a cupboard for 30 odd years....... sorry! Quote
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