Elizabeth I Maundy Coinage

[Coinery]

How much coin would, say, Elizabeth Tudor have given out as Maundy coinage, and how much of that coinage would’ve actually been handled by, or been in direct possession of, the queen? How would the ceremony have worked/happened?

Would it have been mixed denominations, or just pennies? I’ve recently learned that pennies were given out as Maundy, would there be others?

Many thanks in advance!

[Zo Arms]

1 hour ago, Coinery said:

How much coin would, say, Elizabeth Tudor have given out as Maundy coinage, and how much of that coinage would’ve actually been handled by, or been in direct possession of, the queen? How would the ceremony have worked/happened?

Would it have been mixed denominations, or just pennies? I’ve recently learned that pennies were given out as Maundy, would there be others?

Many thanks in advance!

Maundy money started with Charles II back in 1662, when he gave out a four penny, threepenny, twopenny and one penny coin to each individual.

So not Elizabeth I. For some reason, I googled it a while back. I'm not intelligent enough to do links and techy stuff but Google is very helpful with this one.

Bob.

[Coinery]

33 minutes ago, Zo Arms said:

Maundy money started with Charles II back in 1662, when he gave out a four penny, threepenny, twopenny and one penny coin to each individual.

So not Elizabeth I. For some reason, I googled it a while back. I'm not intelligent enough to do links and techy stuff but Google is very helpful with this one.

Bob.

So this is the conundrum, because I’ve read that “7200 pennies were ordered at short notice for the queen’s own personal use, presumably for Maundy Thursday 4th April?”

Does that undo the idea, I honestly don’t know?

[jelida]

1 hour ago, Coinery said:

So this is the conundrum, because I’ve read that “7200 pennies were ordered at short notice for the queen’s own personal use, presumably for Maundy Thursday 4th April?”

Does that undo the idea, I honestly don’t know?

Yes, I have read that also, mintmark acorn. BCW elaborates on page 10, ‘On the 2nd April 1574 the Queen issued an unusual order for just 10 pounds of pennies, to be kept by the Warden ‘ to our use’. ‘  and also states that ‘these rare coins , which were produced just before the acorn coins were pyxed, are the first specially minted Maundy coins. They continued to be produced during the following four years when the eglantine mark was in use, but only in sufficient numbers for the Maundy ceremony’.

Jerry

[Coinery]

21 minutes ago, jelida said:

Yes, I have read that also, mintmark acorn. BCW elaborates on page 10, ‘On the 2nd April 1574 the Queen issued an unusual order for just 10 pounds of pennies, to be kept by the Warden ‘ to our use’. ‘  and also states that ‘these rare coins , which were produced just before the acorn coins were pyxed, are the first specially minted Maundy coins. They continued to be produced during the following four years when the eglantine mark was in use, but only in sufficient numbers for the Maundy ceremony’.

Jerry

Not looked at Eglantine but, yes, I’m thinking an Acorn Penny may actually have been in the possession of, maybe even in the hand of, Elizabeth herself?

I confess I can’t find one, not even an image!

[jelida]

57 minutes ago, Coinery said:

Not looked at Eglantine but, yes, I’m thinking an Acorn Penny may actually have been in the possession of, maybe even in the hand of, Elizabeth herself?

I confess I can’t find one, not even an image!

You will find both in the St James’s auction of Comber III,  lots 503 and 504. Both coins are now in my collection of Lizzie pennies, accompanied by a rather nice eglantine from EBay at £50 earlier this year.

https://cdn.sanity.io/files/f3pcy24e/production/c199e15e78890aba1f6e583438b2b5fa6a740d20.pdf

Jerry

Edited October 9, 2023 by jelida

[Coinery]

46 minutes ago, jelida said:

You will find both in the St James’s auction of Comber III,  lots 503 and 504. Both coins are now in my collection of Lizzie pennies, accompanied by a rather nice eglantine from EBay at £50 earlier this year.

https://cdn.sanity.io/files/f3pcy24e/production/c199e15e78890aba1f6e583438b2b5fa6a740d20.pdf

Jerry

Well that’s pretty spectacular, Jerry, what a coin…what’s your thoughts on it potentially being in the hand of the queen herself?

BCW only had access to one single coin in the research collection…bloody well done! 👏👏👏

[jelida]

It’s clearly a nice thought, that the Queen might have held the coin - but would all 7200 coins have been used in the Maundy service? I have no idea. I do have a mate who also has an acorn mm, at less than a ton on EBay several years ago, so they are about. It is perhaps notable that both acorns and eglantine mm coins I have seen are nicely struck and of full flan, perhaps a little more care went in to their striking.

Rare coins anyway. There is an eglantine in the upcoming St James’s auction.

Jerry

[Coinery]

On 10/10/2023 at 8:52 AM, jelida said:

It’s clearly a nice thought, that the Queen might have held the coin - but would all 7200 coins have been used in the Maundy service? I have no idea. I do have a mate who also has an acorn mm, at less than a ton on EBay several years ago, so they are about. It is perhaps notable that both acorns and eglantine mm coins I have seen are nicely struck and of full flan, perhaps a little more care went in to their striking.

Rare coins anyway. There is an eglantine in the upcoming St James’s auction.

Jerry

I did notice that one, but there are SO many things I’d like from that sale. I believe it could be my most expensive day in coins, with my early successes (or not) having a big bearing on whether I survive for other bids! I’m buying to sell too, just to offset my personal wants, so fingers crossed.

The Eglantine Penny is just borderline for me, despite its rarity, I may bid…though this would absolutely be a target, in that grade, had it been acorn (your one is lovely, and your overmark lovelier still).

I’m so glad I raised this question, and genuinely thank you for your generous sharing!

Incidentally, is your friend’s acorn Penny a clear example, or a die comparison?

Best,

Stuart

[jelida]

I will have to get my mate to take photos of the acorn, I’m not sure about the dies matching so it’s worth a look.

Jerry

 

[jelida]

On 10/13/2023 at 9:14 AM, jelida said:

I will have to get my mate to take photos of the acorn, I’m not sure about the dies matching so it’s worth a look.

Jerry

 

Here, finally, are my friends photos of his acorn penny, an Ebay purchase several years ago at less than £100! The same dies, I think, as my Comber example.

Jerry

[Coinery]

3 hours ago, jelida said:

Here, finally, are my friends photos of his acorn penny, an Ebay purchase several years ago at less than £100! The same dies, I think, as my Comber example.

Jerry

Oh, wow, minus the crack, that’s a great penny with ANY mark. Goodness me he fell on his feet with that one…they’re out there, then! Viva la eBay

[Coinery]

I’d also 100% concur with the two dies matching yours, what a find!

[Coinery]

I was a total idiot, yesterday, and let this go because it went £40 beyond my decided top bid…I should’ve just decided I really wanted it instead. The commonest of 3ds but uncommonly beautiful! I’ll never learn!

[Rob]

 

[Coinery]

9 minutes ago, Rob said:

 

Exquisite, Rob…you have some of the loveliest pieces out there, that could easily be the best of that mark/date?

[blakeyboy]

Rob, I have no interest in hammered, but that really is stunning.  Stunning.  I had no idea that hammered strikes could be this good.

[Coinery]

3 minutes ago, blakeyboy said:

Rob, I have no interest in hammered, but that really is stunning.  Stunning.  I had no idea that hammered strikes could be this good.

So funny, I have just posted a near mirror comment in the gardening thread

Edited November 15, 2023 by Coinery

[Rob]

26 minutes ago, Coinery said:

Exquisite, Rob…you have some of the loveliest pieces out there, that could easily be the best of that mark/date?

There will be better out there. It isn't a rare thing, though it is in this grade

[Coinery]

42 minutes ago, Rob said:

There will be better out there. It isn't a rare thing, though it is in this grade

Definitely rare in that grade! You’d have to walk a very long, long, mile to better it.

[jelida]

It’s remarkable that this penny crept through a week on EBay, it closed at £26.21 and arrived today. Five bidders, yet I assume it went unrecognised except by me. Advertised by its vendor - an establishes dealer- as mm rose, it is in fact eglantine/ eglantine over acorn and the same reverse die (and probably obverse) as the Comber specimen. The obverse die has moved in the strike, but it is in pretty good condition, indeed better than the vendors photo after removal of soil and encrustation.  An extremely rare coin……unless you know otherwise?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/116003103643

Jerry

[jelida]

[jelida]

[Coinery]

3 hours ago, jelida said:

It’s remarkable that this penny crept through a week on EBay, it closed at £26.21 and arrived today. Five bidders, yet I assume it went unrecognised except by me. Advertised by its vendor - an establishes dealer- as mm rose, it is in fact eglantine/ eglantine over acorn and the same reverse die (and probably obverse) as the Comber specimen. The obverse die has moved in the strike, but it is in pretty good condition, indeed better than the vendors photo after removal of soil and encrustation.  An extremely rare coin……unless you know otherwise?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/116003103643

Jerry

Jerry I hate you! I’ve trawled the eBay rubbish for years, and recently added Penny-checks to my list, and definitely never even saw that one, I would’ve remembered the double-strike obverse.

A nice Christmas present, I salute you Sir, and look forward to my own addition to this post! That’s got to be the clearest acorn/eglantine reverse MM you’ll see…buy a lottery ticket for Saturday!

Edited December 19, 2023 by Coinery

[Coinery]

Matching dies for your acorn/eglantine penny, @jelida, sold this month in the US.