proposed heating payments this winter

[1949threepence]

I see those XR morons have now superglued themselves to the Speaker's chair in the Commons.

So much for security. 

No doubt the police will be asking them how they are, that nobody has said anything which might hurt their feelings, and have offered tea and biscuits.

[1949threepence]

Liz Truss, as new PM, will know that she has to freeze energy prices at probably April 22 rates. For sure it will be very costly, but it's a political, moral and public imperative.

She will be as aware as the rest of us, that with the exception of those who are reasonably well off, with good income, own their own mortgageless house etc, people are going to struggle massively to pay the kind of bills projected going forward to October and January. A huge cohort will simply not manage at all. That's blindingly obvious. Ignoring this or watering it down, will, with almost 100% certainty, lead to civil unrest and disobedience, as energy bills deliberately go unpaid, direct debits are cancelled en masse, and many seek to re-wire their electric intake by by-passing their meters - causing a fire risk. But that's desperation. If enough consumers do this, it will become impossible to police and we risk partial societal breakdown.

Also, I don't think there's time to faff about trying to determine who's a higher earner etc, and should pay more. It's too long winded and complicated. Has to be a freeze across the board.  

[mrbadexample]

On 9/2/2022 at 3:02 PM, 1949threepence said:

I see those XR morons have now superglued themselves to the Speaker's chair in the Commons.

So much for security. 

No doubt the police will be asking them how they are, that nobody has said anything which might hurt their feelings, and have offered tea and biscuits.

These people aren't being dealt with properly. The correct response would be to leave them to it, but keep bringing them cups of tea. Come 3am when they're cramped up and desperately uncomfortable, sitting in a cold puddle of their own making they'd be begging to be released. 

[Peckris 2]

7 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Liz Truss, as new PM, will know that she has to freeze energy prices at probably April 22 rates. For sure it will be very costly, but it's a political, moral and public imperative.

She will be as aware as the rest of us, that with the exception of those who are reasonably well off, with good income, own their own mortgageless house etc, people are going to struggle massively to pay the kind of bills projected going forward to October and January. A huge cohort will simply not manage at all. That's blindingly obvious. Ignoring this or watering it down, will, with almost 100% certainty, lead to civil unrest and disobedience, as energy bills deliberately go unpaid, direct debits are cancelled en masse, and many seek to re-wire their electric intake by by-passing their meters - causing a fire risk. But that's desperation. If enough consumers do this, it will become impossible to police and we risk partial societal breakdown.

Also, I don't think there's time to faff about trying to determine who's a higher earner etc, and should pay more. It's too long winded and complicated. Has to be a freeze across the board.  

I can't disagree. One thing I'd add is that businesses should have the energy cap applied the same as for consumers, which because it isn't, is seeing small businesses fail across the board, especially those which rely on gas and electricity such as catering establishments. I'd also add that tax cuts right now aren’t going to pay for this.

[1949threepence]

2 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

I can't disagree. One thing I'd add is that businesses should have the energy cap applied the same as for consumers, which because it isn't, is seeing small businesses fail across the board, especially those which rely on gas and electricity such as catering establishments. I'd also add that tax cuts right now aren’t going to pay for this.

Very much so.

[1949threepence]

We'll hear what Hunt has to say soon, but the one decent thing that was announced before Kwarteng's mini budget, namely a 2 year energy price cap set at £2,500, now only lasts for 6 months, until April 2023, with (as yet undefined) help for the vulnerable.

Absolutely bloody spiffing.   

[Peckris 2]

On 10/17/2022 at 3:58 PM, 1949threepence said:

We'll hear what Hunt has to say soon, but the one decent thing that was announced before Kwarteng's mini budget, namely a 2 year energy price cap set at £2,500, now only lasts for 6 months, until April 2023, with (as yet undefined) help for the vulnerable.

Absolutely bloody spiffing.   

Bl00dy reporters have a lot to answer for. That widely quoted £2,500 figure isn't the price cap, which is actually applied to the price per unit. The figure is just an average - some people will use more and have higher bills, others less.

As for April 2023 - it makes sense to review the whole situation then, as the cost of fuel may have sharply decreased by then. A two-year promise of help was always barmy.

[1949threepence]

9 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

Bl00dy reporters have a lot to answer for. That widely quoted £2,500 figure isn't the price cap, which is actually applied to the price per unit. The figure is just an average - some people will use more and have higher bills, others less.

As for April 2023 - it makes sense to review the whole situation then, as the cost of fuel may have sharply decreased by then. A two-year promise of help was always barmy.

We already know that it's not an absolute cap in terms of individual usage, which may be more or less. But it is the accepted phrase used to describe the overall cost to consumers, unless you can think of a better one. The energy price cap, which I believe is set by Ofgem, limits the maximum amount energy suppliers can charge you for each unit of energy used.

As for April 2023, the two year promise helped worried households to feel a bit more secure, and could have been modified to take account of overall energy price changes along the way. Now they've had the rug pulled from under their feet again.

Wit regard to helping the most vulnerable, I can forecast quite accurately now, that will be an administrative nightmare as there will be millions right on whatever borderline is set, who will be disputing the decision in their case. 

 

 

 

  

[Peckris 2]

2 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

We already know that it's not an absolute cap in terms of individual usage, which may be more or less. But it is the accepted phrase used to describe the overall cost to consumers, unless you can think of a better one.

Well, only "The £2,500 figure is the new cost to consumers currently paying £1,200. (Some pay more, others less, depending on actual usage)."

The energy price cap, which I believe is set by Ofgem, limits the maximum amount energy suppliers can charge you for each unit of energy used.

As for April 2023, the two year promise helped worried households to feel a bit more secure

They'd have felt no less secure if the government had said "It's help for 6 months, and then we'll review it every 6 months for up to 2 years to see how the situation changes."

, and could have been modified to take account of overall energy price changes along the way. Now they've had the rug pulled from under their feet again.

Only because the government made a fatuous unrealistic promise (probably for purely political reasons).

Wit regard to helping the most vulnerable, I can forecast quite accurately now, that will be an administrative nightmare as there will be millions right on whatever borderline is set, who will be disputing the decision in their case. 

Sadly you're right, I think.

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Peckris 2

[1949threepence]

On 10/20/2022 at 11:25 AM, Peckris 2 said:

We already know that it's not an absolute cap in terms of individual usage, which may be more or less. But it is the accepted phrase used to describe the overall cost to consumers, unless you can think of a better one.

1/ Well, only "The £2,500 figure is the new cost to consumers currently paying £1,200. (Some pay more, others less, depending on actual usage)."

The energy price cap, which I believe is set by Ofgem, limits the maximum amount energy suppliers can charge you for each unit of energy used.

As for April 2023, the two year promise helped worried households to feel a bit more secure

2/ They'd have felt no less secure if the government had said "It's help for 6 months, and then we'll review it every 6 months for up to 2 years to see how the situation changes."

, and could have been modified to take account of overall energy price changes along the way. Now they've had the rug pulled from under their feet again.

3/ Only because the government made a fatuous unrealistic promise (probably for purely political reasons).

Wit regard to helping the most vulnerable, I can forecast quite accurately now, that will be an administrative nightmare as there will be millions right on whatever borderline is set, who will be disputing the decision in their case. 

4/ Sadly you're right, I think.

1/ That's going to sound a bit long winded and clumsy. I reckon "energy price cap" is a lot more succinct.

2/ But Hunt didn't say that. Just that it would be for 6 months only.

3/ Why is it unrealistic? Absolutely no-one in politics or the media (that I recall) said it was unrealistic at the time it was announced, NOBODY bar none - so why is it suddenly and miraculously unrealistic now? Expensive yes, but unrealistic no. In fact it's a disgrace to just scrap a public commitment on an extremely serious issue, simply because you have a different philosophy.

Anyway, it's all being turned upside down yet again, and we will see whether Johnson gets back in, or whether it will be a Sunak coronation. If it goes to the membership, it will be Johnson for certain. If it is Johnson I doubt Hunt will be Chancellor for much longer. Probably go to Cleverly. 

[Peckris 2]

6 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

3/ Why is it unrealistic? Absolutely no-one in politics or the media (that I recall) said it was unrealistic at the time it was announced, NOBODY bar none - so why is it suddenly and miraculously unrealistic now? Expensive yes, but unrealistic no. In fact it's a disgrace to just scrap a public commitment on an extremely serious issue, simply because you have a different philosophy.

It's nothing to do with philosophy - if in the event fuel costs go back to what they were within a year, then the 2 year promise is indeed unrealistic. Ok, it might not - probably won't - happen but a review every 6 months would certainly keep an eye on what's needed.

[1949threepence]

3 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

It's nothing to do with philosophy - if in the event fuel costs go back to what they were within a year, then the 2 year promise is indeed unrealistic. Ok, it might not - probably won't - happen but a review every 6 months would certainly keep an eye on what's needed.

It's exactly that, and of course the fuel price guarantee was absolutely nothing to do with the mini budget, being set weeks before. 

Sorry, no - if you make a commitment to the public on such a vitally important issue, then right or wrong, you stick to it. There's nothing wrong with adding a caveat to the effect that if prices do come down in the meantime, then the situation can be reviewed. But not to abandon the principle altogether. 

Supposing the price doesn't come down, what then? Hard luck folks, suck it up?    

[Rob]

On 9/5/2022 at 9:03 PM, Peckris 2 said:

I can't disagree. One thing I'd add is that businesses should have the energy cap applied the same as for consumers, which because it isn't, is seeing small businesses fail across the board, especially those which rely on gas and electricity such as catering establishments. I'd also add that tax cuts right now aren’t going to pay for this.

Just spent the week walking in the Lakes. To put things into context, the owner of the B&B we stayed said he is going to shut up shop shortly for the winter and not reopen until March so that he doesn't have to heat the house. His heating bill is increasing 4-fold to £22K on a turnover of 60K, so it may be cost effective for them to move into rented accommodation for the winter months. 

In contrast, my supplier has just realised that we spend less than average on energy and reduced the monthly payments. We have always turned off the lights when not required, done full washing loads, used the clothes line rather than the dryer wherever possible, only heated the rooms we use, turned off things rather than leaving on standby etc. Judging by the claims of some people, I suspect there hasn't been a lot of attention to consumption in the past. 

[Peckris 2]

23 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Supposing the price doesn't come down, what then? Hard luck folks, suck it up?    

Precisely NO-ONE has said that. Everyone apart from Truss has talked about regularly reviewing the situation.

[1949threepence]

19 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

Precisely NO-ONE has said that. Everyone apart from Truss has talked about regularly reviewing the situation.

Who has talked about regularly reviewing the situation? Provide a link. 

All I've heard is that accommodation would be considered for the least well off from April 2023.

[alfnail]

On 10/22/2022 at 2:11 AM, Rob said:

We have always turned off the lights when not required, 

Yesterday I discovered that the dimmable up-lighter which we have had in the corner of the lounge for donkeys years, and is used every evening whilst watching TV, was using a 300W bulb..... suggest worth checking your old bulbs folks! 💡🤔

[Rob]

2 hours ago, alfnail said:

Yesterday I discovered that the dimmable up-lighter which we have had in the corner of the lounge for donkeys years, and is used every evening whilst watching TV, was using a 300W bulb..... suggest worth checking your old bulbs folks! 💡🤔

There is a trade-off here. Saves heating the room.

 

[1949threepence]

3 hours ago, alfnail said:

Yesterday I discovered that the dimmable up-lighter which we have had in the corner of the lounge for donkeys years, and is used every evening whilst watching TV, was using a 300W bulb..... suggest worth checking your old bulbs folks! 💡🤔

I've retained some old 100w incandescent bulbs for my living room ceiling light, which has a dimmer switch, as the energy saving bulbs just don't work with it. 

I think you can install a compatible dimmer, but I just can't be bothered.

Really do appreciate the dimmer and use it quite a lot.