What the heck is this coin?

[1949threepence]

We've probably all experienced this scenario. Colleagues know you're a coin collector, so every now and then one will bring you some in to ID and value.

In this case someone brought me an entire tin of coins, all of which were worthless, with the possible exception of this one. I had no idea what it was, as it's outside my speciality, but it looked as though it had potential and I told her so. She asked me to take it away and see if I could positively ID what it was. From brief research at home, it looks like it might be a spade half guinea from 1790, but the obverse just doesn't match pictured specimens at all. So I'm wondering if it's a fake.

The reverse looks a lot better than the obverse.

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.      

Edited March 3, 2020 by 1949threepence

[copper123]

Spade guinea fake counter from the victorian period - worth around 50p -£1

[1949threepence]

10 minutes ago, copper123 said:

Spade guinea fake counter from the victorian period - worth around 50p -£1

Thought as much - thanks.

[Peckris 2]

2 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

We've probably all experienced this scenario. Colleagues know you're a coin collector, so every now and then one will bring you some in to ID and value.

In this case someone brought me an entire tin of coins, all of which were worthless, with the possible exception of this one. I had no idea what it was, as it's outside my speciality, but it looked as though it had potential and I told her so. She asked me to take it away and see if I could positively ID what it was. From brief research at home, it looks like it might be a spade half guinea from 1790, but the obverse just doesn't match pictured specimens at all. So I'm wondering if it's a fake.

The reverse looks a lot better than the obverse.

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.     

Not a fake as such, more likely a gaming counter, though they usually have "impossible" dates on.

[secret santa]

Margaret Thatcher would be delighted to see herself on a coin......

[Sword]

Information from Google.

"George III brass 'spade' guinea card counter. 1790. Rev. C.W.B. & Co. Birm. Neilson 6910.
The standard 'spade' design along with a spurious date is given. The legend reads: .C.W.B.ET.CO.DG./I.REX.F.D.B.I.R.M.1790. This garbled legend actually gives the maker's name, C.W.B & Co. (Charles William Bagnall) and the place of manufacture, 16, Hockley Street, Birmingham."

[copper123]

9 hours ago, Sword said:

Information from Google.

"George III brass 'spade' guinea card counter. 1790. Rev. C.W.B. & Co. Birm. Neilson 6910.
The standard 'spade' design along with a spurious date is given. The legend reads: .C.W.B.ET.CO.DG./I.REX.F.D.B.I.R.M.1790. This garbled legend actually gives the maker's name, C.W.B & Co. (Charles William Bagnall) and the place of manufacture, 16, Hockley Street, Birmingham."

Years ago these were seen as worthless as they are plentyful and have few fans - I have a whole tray I have saved from coin fairs over the years , I bet there are some great stories to be told about many of them .

The main thing missing is a cataloge giving info - I dont think anyone is working on one at the moment - such a pity

[JLS]

8 hours ago, copper123 said:

Years ago these were seen as worthless as they are plentyful and have few fans - I have a whole tray I have saved from coin fairs over the years , I bet there are some great stories to be told about many of them .

The main thing missing is a cataloge giving info - I dont think anyone is working on one at the moment - such a pity

There already is a catalog ! "A Thousand Guineas" by Nielson and Warburton. 

galata.co.uk/store.asp?storeAction=showDetail&stockID=6523&stockMasterCategoriesID=9

Like the Cumberland Jacks ("To Hanover" tokens), this is a series for people who like micro-varieties and impossible rarities. The vast majority of pieces are common, easily obtainable in top grades, and not very attractive or interesting. Then there are all sorts of fun advertising pieces, and oddities, some of which only very few are known. 

I dabble in the series as it crosses over with my interest in 19th century advertising tokens....

 

[copper123]

3 hours ago, JLS said:

There already is a catalog ! "A Thousand Guineas" by Nielson and Warburton. 

galata.co.uk/store.asp?storeAction=showDetail&stockID=6523&stockMasterCategoriesID=9

Like the Cumberland Jacks ("To Hanover" tokens), this is a series for people who like micro-varieties and impossible rarities. The vast majority of pieces are common, easily obtainable in top grades, and not very attractive or interesting. Then there are all sorts of fun advertising pieces, and oddities, some of which only very few are known. 

I dabble in the series as it crosses over with my interest in 19th century advertising tokens....

 

Well I never knew that , there again most galata books tend to be of limited runs and are quite expensive

[Diaconis]

https://www.britnumsoc.org/publications/Digital BNJ/pdfs/1963_BNJ_32_15.pdf

might be of interest

[Peckris 2]

3 hours ago, Diaconis said:

https://www.britnumsoc.org/publications/Digital BNJ/pdfs/1963_BNJ_32_15.pdf

might be of interest

Category 2 - close facsimiles - is worrying. The other three are easy to identify as gaming tokens.

[Diaconis]

On 3/3/2020 at 9:01 PM, 1949threepence said:

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.      

I noticed that the reverse R.37 of your example is unfortunately not shown, the document may be incomplete. You have the 'Thatcher' obverse O.24 #46