JLS Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 I have a bit of a sideline collection right now of commercial countermarks on 19th century coinage. As well as all the usual Pears Soap and Lloyd's newspaper ones there are quite a few which are hard to identify. Anyone got any clues on this one ? The B-B in a triangle is pretty distinctive but I'm struggling to place it myself. 1 Quote
JLS Posted July 3, 2019 Author Posted July 3, 2019 On 6/28/2019 at 1:20 PM, Diaconis said: Could it be EHB? With a bit of imagination - yes ! Or BHB, BLB...etc. Am going to keep my eyes peeled for any others with this countermark (never seen any) or SENSE - if they turn up regionally might give a clue to origin. Quote
blakeyboy Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 Found this 30 years ago, lost it, and it turned up this morning. I've never been able to find out what the stamp meant commercially.... 2 Quote
1949threepence Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 Some of these marks are interesting, but you do wonder why they got stamped on in the first place. What exactly was the point, unless for pure amusement - as with trench art. Maybe pennies were just sometimes taken out of pockets to test punches. It seems to be largely a preserve of 19th century coins, predominantly pennies, together with drilling holes through the coins. Not counting "votes for women", which apart from the odd genuine one, is a wholly 21st century initiative. The two above are unusual inasmuch as they are neater and cleverer than usual. Blake's maybe (possibly) meant as a representation of a zulu spear. JLS's is anybody's guess. Not only as to whether the apparent B's are meant as B's, some other lettering/numbering combination, or in fact a pattern which has no relation to letters/numbers. Moreover, what's the significance of the larger V to the lower right, or the word "sense", which might have been added later or earlier? We'll never know. Quote
1949threepence Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 Quote Shaka of the Zulu invented a shorter-style spear with a two-foot shaft and which had a larger, broader blade one foot long. This weapon is otherwise known as the iklwa or ixwa, after the sound that was heard as it was withdrawn from the victim's wound. It was used as a stabbing weapon. 1 Quote
blakeyboy Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 It's the fact that the punch used must have been expensive to make, so it was either tested on a pocket coin, and was intended to be used on a product or other, or was intended to only be stamped onto pennies, but to what end? Product advertising? Quote
1949threepence Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 1 hour ago, blakeyboy said: It's the fact that the punch used must have been expensive to make, so it was either tested on a pocket coin, and was intended to be used on a product or other, or was intended to only be stamped onto pennies, but to what end? Product advertising? Maybe some were designed for advertising. Quite a neat way of advertising when you think about it - for the era. Coins, especially pennies, would be very widely circulated and go through a lot of hands. Quote
JLS Posted July 19, 2019 Author Posted July 19, 2019 9 hours ago, blakeyboy said: Found this 30 years ago, lost it, and it turned up this morning. I've never been able to find out what the stamp meant commercially.... Fascinating ! The Pitt River's Museum in Oxford has a bun penny with "CETEWAYO" (Cetshwayo kaMpande, Zulu king in the 1870s) countermarked on it. The origin is obscure. It's possible this piece is instead related to HMS Zulu (1909) rather than having any connection with South Africa. Quote
blakeyboy Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 I've just noticed that the shaft of the spear on the reverse is just in front of Victoria's nose, and the tip of her nose is more worn than I would expect, so, even though the stamp is very clean and sharp, this penny saw quite a bit of circulation after it was stamped... Quote
Peckris 2 Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 4 hours ago, JLS said: Fascinating ! The Pitt River's Museum in Oxford has a bun penny with "CETEWAYO" (Cetshwayo kaMpande, Zulu king in the 1870s) countermarked on it. The origin is obscure. It's possible this piece is instead related to HMS Zulu (1909) rather than having any connection with South Africa. That's the penny presented to Michael Caine in 1964. 1 Quote
1949threepence Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said: That's the penny presented to Michael Caine in 1964. Not a lot of people know that...... 1 2 Quote
1949threepence Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 1 hour ago, blakeyboy said: I've just noticed that the shaft of the spear on the reverse is just in front of Victoria's nose, and the tip of her nose is more worn than I would expect, so, even though the stamp is very clean and sharp, this penny saw quite a bit of circulation after it was stamped... Good point, well observed. Quote
JLS Posted July 20, 2019 Author Posted July 20, 2019 9 hours ago, Peckris 2 said: That's the penny presented to Michael Caine in 1964. Ah, was it a prop in Zulu ? I wonder how it got in the Pitt Rivers.... Quote
Peckris 2 Posted July 20, 2019 Posted July 20, 2019 14 hours ago, JLS said: Ah, was it a prop in Zulu ? I wonder how it got in the Pitt Rivers.... I was joking, but glad you got the reference. Quote
JLS Posted July 21, 2019 Author Posted July 21, 2019 23 hours ago, Peckris 2 said: I was joking, but glad you got the reference. I'm glad - there is a real movie prop coin listed in Krause's Unusual World Coins so I wasn't sure if you were being serious ! Quote
JLS Posted July 21, 2019 Author Posted July 21, 2019 Here are two more obscure pieces from my collection - probably checks or passes of commercial use. One is counterstamped on a cartwheel penny, the other appears to have been stamped on a blank piece of metal. Appreciate any insight ! Quote
bagerap Posted July 23, 2019 Posted July 23, 2019 I've seen EG before on large copper. It may be one of the few countermarked coins in Davis & Waters "Tickets & Passes", but my copy is currently on the missing list. Quote
JLS Posted July 23, 2019 Author Posted July 23, 2019 6 hours ago, bagerap said: I've seen EG before on large copper. It may be one of the few countermarked coins in Davis & Waters "Tickets & Passes", but my copy is currently on the missing list. Ah, that's a book I'd really like - just don't like the price-tag. I will have a look in a library copy if I get a chance. Quote
Diaconis Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 On 7/19/2019 at 10:57 AM, 1949threepence said: It seems to be largely a preserve of 19th century coins, predominantly pennies, together with drilling holes through the coins. Not counting "votes for women", which apart from the odd genuine one, is a wholly 21st century initiative. Quote
rooneydog Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 On 7/21/2019 at 11:35 PM, JLS said: Here are two more obscure pieces from my collection - probably checks or passes of commercial use. One is counterstamped on a cartwheel penny, the other appears to have been stamped on a blank piece of metal. Appreciate any insight ! Maybe top one is pit token or tool chitty ? Quote
Peckris 2 Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 Poor old George III - he seems to have eg on his face... 5 Quote
blakeyboy Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 47 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said: Poor old George III - he seems to have eg on his face... dadahh!.mp3 1 Quote
JLS Posted October 29, 2019 Author Posted October 29, 2019 On 10/28/2019 at 4:17 PM, rooneydog said: Maybe top one is pit token or tool chitty ? Probably - the question is from where ! The lettering style looks late 18th century or early 19th century to me but otherwise there don't seem to be many clues... Quote
copper123 Posted October 30, 2019 Posted October 30, 2019 It could have been used as an entry to a factory or mine chitty - these coins would have been easy available at minimal cost in the 1860 onward - they could have stood at the entrance to a factory -mine -etc and the person who initals were on it would take it when he started work . It would be easy to work out who exactly was there if an accident happened . All the coins have initials on them so even a very casual workforce would be easy everyone was given a coin after being inerviewed The coins would stand in a rack at the entrance to the works possably guarded by another person who would also enter them into a ledger for payment purposes . Quote
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