Long Shot .. Shuttlewood 329 Shilling.

[TomGoodheart]

Yes, it's only a very slim chance but .. I wondered if anyone here (dealers in particular) had encountered Shuttlewood 329 (SNC Vol CIX 2 April 2001 HS0329) in their travels?  The reason I ask is I'm still trying to pin down the provenance for this:

I suspect it might be the aforesaid coin which is described as "Shilling type 4.4. m.m. (R), bust 1.  Sharp G1/2; N.2232; S.2843.  Untidy strike on a squarish flan.  VF for this. "  However that particular shilling wasn't illustrated and there were no coin tickets with the Shuttlewood coins and no weights or die orientation given in the descriptions!

 The only basis for my suspicions are that this coin was originally listed in a dealer catalogue along with Shuttlewood 323, so the timing is right.  Sadly I didn't buy it at the time and when I checked the dealer's assistant was unable to find purchase details for the coins in that list.  The dealer I bought it from subsequently has since ceased trading. 

Not much to go on I admit and still inconclusive I know.  In fact the the only conclusive thing would be to confirm that this coin isn't the Shuttlewood one by finding that somebody else has that one (or did own it at any time after April 2005, when I acquired the coin above!) 

Anyone?

[Coinery]

Not my territory...also, if you don’t know it, I don’t know it, but I hope you get an answer soon!

[copper123]

Not my speciality, really, but anyone else out there think theres been tooling on that obverse?

[Rob]

16 minutes ago, copper123 said:

Not my speciality, really, but anyone else out there think theres been tooling on that obverse?

Why do you say that?

[copper123]

Portrait looks just too good with the details of the lettering much worse .

If nobody else comments on it I am wrong .

Funny enough you never see any coins in this grade so to find one u are immediately warry of it .

 

[Coinery]

57 minutes ago, Rob said:

Why do you say that?

I’ve just taken a look...in the absence of other dies to compare, my first instinct would be the same.

 

[Coinery]

Incuse beard on cheek the big stand out for me? It’s clearly a coarse bust, so I make this judgment only on face value, and based only upon seeing this one coin in isolation.

If that beard is standard on other busts of that type, then it’s just a coarse bust punch  and nothing more...however...  

[Coinery]

It would definitely be described as a square flan, though, tooling or not! 👍

[Rob]

32 minutes ago, copper123 said:

Portrait looks just too good with the details of the lettering much worse .

If nobody else comments on it I am wrong .

Funny enough you never see any coins in this grade so to find one u are immediately warry of it .

 

It's a hammered coin. Strong portrait/weak legends or vice versa or anything in between, anything can happen. The holy grail is of course something fully struck up, which is why you will pay over the odds for something that ticks all the boxes. A lot must depend on the die pair used, in particular the extent to which the faces are curved, given they were ground down to erase the old detail (which immediately runs the risk of making an undulating surface) before being re-engraved with the new design.

Square flans are quite common in the late issues at the end of the war.

[TomGoodheart]

Oh, I'm not too worried about tooling.  It's very similar to Ashby 2206 and some of the later 'Briot' Brooker shillings such as 550-553, all of which have that odd beard and crude features.  Sadly I can't find the facility to upload pics from my laptop any more, but Rob's Sun coin shows the same sort of 'pared down' artistry.

I guess I'll just have too be content that it fits the 'crude' and 'square' criteria!  😀

[Coinery]

“Rob's Sun coin shows the same sort of 'pared down' artistry.”

Have to agree with that, TG, not dissimilar; the jawline and moustache!

[Gaz T]

Hiya Tom,

This is one i found a few years ago, looks like the bust on your coin, But not sure if its the (R) mint mark.