Halfpenny ID check

[DrLarry]

33 minutes ago, mick1271 said:

T over T , but not a Halfpenny . Its on an F10 Penny.

 

I will check mine see if I have a T over T on the penny ......  yes in my records I have it in the n over Z in one example and in my notes on others but I would have to look it out sometimes I write T over T but it may not be as in yours ....  thank you 

[DrLarry]

45 minutes ago, mick1271 said:

T over T , but not a Halfpenny . Its on an F10 Penny.

 

no I think mine are all rotation errors on the T in VICTORIA except the 2md although only the lifted base is present not the top as you have  and in the T;s in Britt 

[mrbadexample]

52 minutes ago, DrLarry said:

reverse E continued : F274 with obverse 5   with an 8 to the side of the 8 and the 6 over a 6 or it is possible that the 8 is over a 6 and the 6 over and 8 the curvature of the overstamp on the 6 seems closer to and 8 than a 6 but this may simply be the pressure on the stamp .  It appears to have the flaw in the forehead so I am opting for OBV 5 but please correct me it could be OBV 4 ....the ribbon end seems somehow wrong longer on one (left side) could be a blockage 

 

Similar but no die crack.

[mrbadexample]

I have mine down as obverse 5 too Larry.

 

[DrLarry]

52 minutes ago, mrbadexample said:

I have mine down as obverse 5 too Larry.

 

ok great  I was just a little worried if the flaw as a strike or true flaw on mine.  The ribbon seems a little different but likely just wear  No I'm wrong yours also is slightly longer on the left of the dove tail 

Edited October 14, 2022 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

REVERSE E  1 OVER 1 BUT SLANTING TO THE RIGHT AND HIGH 

I WAS LOOKING AT THE EXAMPLE IN YOUR HALF PENNY VARIETIES AND noticed the high 1 on the first 1 in the date faces the other way in the two examples I have.  So the error must have been repeated twice . is this the one mentioned by DRACOTT yes I think it must be because it is on an obverse 6 with the double incursed lines for the viens.  

 

[DrLarry]

Here is the obverse  6 with reverse E with the right handed 1 over 1 .   The H  of HALF is also doubled as is the R in REG .  I have 3 I believe one in the US waiting to be shipped and I have seen one other on EBay  in the last year.  which might help with your numbers 

Edited October 14, 2022 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

1861 reverse E    PFNNY  the E is blocked this one also has and R over an R in REG   obverse 4 

[DrLarry]

reverse E obverse 4 or 6   UNBARRED A  in VICTORIA and die break through the R of REG  THE SECOND EXAMPLE IS AN OBVERSE 6 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

REVERSE E OBVERSE 4    A OVER A ROTATED  IN HALF 

Edited October 15, 2022 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

tHAT JUST ABOUT DOES IT FOR MY REVERSE E'S   there are a few additions but nothing much worth listing more than the following : some rotated T's  ; a low 1 in the date ;  c over C and G over G .   These are mostly small alterations .the last one to intrigue me is I have a couple of V over V's where the V has been restruct 3 Times eventually the die cracks creating a "mass" attached to the inner circle giving the impression that  the right spoke is longer.  I have included pictures for completeness along with an interesting character in which the I of VICTORIA is almost absent  V_CTORIA ;   the OBVERSE 6 with the V_CTORIA has restamped colons as do other OBV 6's  and a half smile  ( smiling cyclops) o) comma colon.  The colon sizes vary quite a lot some being tiny remnants others large mixed 

numbers 13 no errors 20 with some kind of error .  I am not sure this in any way is a representative sample but i have enjoyed making my list 

Edited October 16, 2022 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

REVERSE E OBVERSE 6   RECUT RIBBON?   ONE LAST ONE I NOTICED TODAY  It is hard to tell if the position of the ribbon has been recut or this is a die clash ??  a raised area to the left of the hanging ribbon seems to own a dove tail end but it may be this is part of the crease of the garment from the reverse ,  the raised area similar to the "ribbon ends" that appear on many clashed dies between the nape of the neck and the ribbon in the pennies.   Your thoughts please ...Many thanks in advance   Oh and yes is this a mintmark B    that's a joke 

Edited October 16, 2022 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

REVERSE F  In my opinion reverse F's lighthouse is the most elegant artistically.  The rendering of the masonry and the cutting of the lantern and top just looks right.  It is the work of a more competent engraver than previous ones which either look top heavy, have windows placed badly or over simplistic lines are used to give us little appreciation of what a lighthouse is.  Especially so as the lighthouse was iconic and if engraved to show the Eddystone lighthouse  F shows it  as a close approximation.  I am afraid I dont know the history behind the  1862 mint marking three different lighthouse 3 different letters.  Where they done to record a way forward to choose a lighthouse that could survive repeated strikes.  Excuse my ignorance perhaps someone knows.  

There remains serious anatomical issues in the modelling of Britannia with the impossible outstretching of the left arm to grasp the trident and contortionism with the hand itself.  Who knows perhaps the artist was attempting to create an image which fights with itself in this unharmonious non-life drawing.  I would have loved to have seen the original design that was " troublesome and in too high a relief " for the transition to Bronze.  Copper would have been much more forgiving as would silver but that edge that Bronze gives must have been a headache leaving us with what we have.  Designing for a coin never requires a good artist to throw out the rules and Wyon most definitely did not do it on any other designs throughout his career his art is beautiful, subtle and harmonious.  Reading through archives of the mint with parliament and his own diary I get the impression that once his more contemporary take on the designs were "rejected" in favour of just the same old seated Britannia  plus a lighthouse and a ship he seems to resign himself to having to complete the task. the standing Britannia would have held the kind of beauty the EDW VII florin has (my opinion)   But a year or more of alterations and changes obviously left him "fed up" if not  ill ( even partly by the problems it caused him) .  The part I find most shocking is that in the middle of the year with issues still existing, he still picked up his bags and went on holiday for a month around europe, with  the special permission of the mint.  

I know my opinion on the design does not find much favour with accomplished collectors who love the bun penny, but the design is quite poorly done and shows to me a frustration by an accomplished artist to transition to a new material and who had to make choices which limit the artistic integrity of the design.  But many of these problems like the outstretched arm and clumsy modelling of the hand on the trident are seemingly self imposed errors.  So much so that I find it hard to reconcile the artist with the art.  I know most of you have never even given some of these ideas a thought , those that love bronze coinage see only the elegance of the design.  The coinage before in copper and then later with the veiled head does not ignore the anatomy .  The whole hand around the back of the trident fingers curling around and the pulling of the right hand on the shield into the figure and the tucking of the left leg to stabilise the model shows attention to reality.  Still with all its flaws having 1000's scattered around me , they have lasted the test of time and even now are one of the most buoyant coin collecting choices I should just shut up and know my place.  Trying to comprehend both the design of the reverse and obverse got me looking and finding technical errors so I cannot complain.  

 

[DrLarry]

REVERSE F obverse 6 ?

But first I would like some help I have an obverse 4 which might be an obverse 6 .  The O of SO on the garter appears more complete and the viens with two deep lines more like a 6 than an obverse 4.  But it is on the back of an REVERSE F  I have added the O in SO from this reverse and from a reverse 4 

Edited October 17, 2022 by DrLarry

[Zo Arms]

1 hour ago, DrLarry said:

REVERSE F obverse 6 ?

But first I would like some help I have an obverse 4 which might be an obverse 6 .  

Mine, Gary's and Bernie's 6+F, are shown and discussed on this thread, a few pages prior to this.

Full obverse photo please Larry.

[DrLarry]

40 minutes ago, Zo Arms said:

2 hours ago, DrLarry said:

REVERSE F obverse 6 ?

But first I would like some help I have an obverse 4 which might be an obverse 6 .  

Mine, Gary's and Bernie's 6+F, are shown and discussed on this thread, a few pages prior to this.

Full obverse photo please Larry.

oh ok great yes I will take a look .....thanks so much yess I will try take a full picture 

[Bernie]

28 minutes ago, Zo Arms said:

2 hours ago, DrLarry said:

REVERSE F obverse 6 ?

But first I would like some help I have an obverse 4 which might be an obverse 6 .  

Mine, Gary's and Bernie's 6+F, are shown and discussed on this thread, a few pages prior to this.

Full obverse photo please Larry.

Pictures of obverse and reverse please.

[DrLarry]

56 minutes ago, Zo Arms said:

2 hours ago, DrLarry said:

REVERSE F obverse 6 ?

But first I would like some help I have an obverse 4 which might be an obverse 6 .  

Mine, Gary's and Bernie's 6+F, are shown and discussed on this thread, a few pages prior to this.

Full obverse photo please Larry.

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

29 minutes ago, Bernie said:

Pictures of obverse and reverse please.

yes added those below and the details of the leaves 15 in number are above ...this is an 1861 reverse F paired with an obverse 4 (ithought) but on closer examination has the more typical deep incurse lies for the leaf veins ....it is def not a 7 and does not look anything much life my other obverse 4;s rev Fs 

[Bernie]

Clearly reverse F, the large pictures of HONI SO that you placed earlier, the top picture is an obverse 6 and the lower is obverse 4

30 minutes ago, Zo Arms said:

2 hours ago, DrLarry said:

REVERSE F obverse 6 ?

But first I would like some help I have an obverse 4 which might be an obverse 6 .  

Mine, Gary's and Bernie's 6+F, are shown and discussed on this thread, a few pages prior to this.

Full obverse photo please Larry.

Pictures of obverse and reverse please.

[DrLarry]

33 minutes ago, Bernie said:

Pictures of obverse and reverse please.

would you happen to know on which page your example of F 6  is on?   it is listed not listed in Freeman and Richard has it as PU and there is no freeman # 

[DrLarry]

29 minutes ago, Bernie said:

Clearly reverse F, the large pictures of HONI SO that you placed earlier, the top picture is an obverse 6 and the lower is obverse 4

Pictures of obverse and reverse please.

yes he lower one is from my obverse 4's   

[Zo Arms]

9 minutes ago, DrLarry said:

would you happen to know on which page your example of F 6  is on?   it is listed not listed in Freeman and Richard has it as PU and there is no freeman # 

Page 11. Feb 1st onwards.

[DrLarry]

45 minutes ago, Bernie said:

Pictures of obverse and reverse please.

yes thanks Bernie I found the ones mentioned on page 12   

[DrLarry]

27 minutes ago, Zo Arms said:

Page 11. Feb 1st onwards.

thanks yes got that.  you all seem to have been looking at the same things as I have on my example so at least that gives me confidence.  Whilst I list varieties I should open my eyes more often.  it was however only because I was sorting my F4's and f 7's that I noticed this one was not falling into the same pattern.  The HONI SO is pretty clear and I can at least compare it to the F 4's I have in similar grades ....I know it is often hard comparing otherwise.