1860 washer F17?

[zookeeperz]

Won't be voted prettiest coin of the year for sure but a gaper nonetheless If I have done my homework which if I were still at school the answer would of been .Homework? what's that?  . This should be F17 Obverse 6 reverse D ? Please put me wise even on these old gapers it's hard to tell. thanks  Oh and notice this obverse is without the usual flaw on the top colon after F:D:

 

Edited June 2, 2018 by zookeeperz

[jelida]

2 hours ago, zookeeperz said:

Won't be voted prettiest coin of the year for sure but a gaper nonetheless If I have done my homework which if I were still at school the answer would of been .Homework? what's that?  . This should be F17 Obverse 6 reverse D ? Please put me wise even on these old gapers it's hard to tell. thanks  Oh and notice this obverse is without the usual flaw on the top colon after F:D:

 

Yup, I would say F 17. The flaw on the last colon seems to appear on the latest 1861’s.

Jerry

[zookeeperz]

Bit of an anomaly these are both reverse D coins I snapped together this morning there seems to be a difference in the design of the helmet. the top part one has a convex curve to the peak and the other a concave curve making one much more rounded?

[Peckris]

7 minutes ago, zookeeperz said:

Bit of an anomaly these are both reverse D coins I snapped together this morning there seems to be a difference in the design of the helmet. the top part one has a convex curve to the peak and the other a concave curve making one much more rounded?

Wear would probably account for most of the differences (the left hand coin is even more worn than the right hand one). As for the convex vs concave, I would venture that it might be die wear rather than coin wear?

[terrysoldpennies]

Hi Zoo, There are two sub types of F17  6+D and the 6+D*  this may be another slight variation. Below D* has a curved rock up under the shield .  D has just sea.  See Richards Site

Site. https://englishpennies.wordpress.com/victoria-bronze/

Edited June 2, 2018 by terrysoldpennies

[zookeeperz]

this is almost impossible to really make a definite assumption but the rock looks further from the lighthouse and closer to the linear circle but it might just be wear?

[zookeeperz]

Also I think this maybe the early start of the cannonball die flaw?

[jelida]

46 minutes ago, zookeeperz said:

Also I think this maybe the early start of the cannonball die flaw?

The cannonball is rather higher on the wide date 1875 ‘cannonball’ non-variety 😜, but it does look similar otherwise, perhaps there was a piracy issue in 1875.

Jerry

[Unwilling Numismatist]

Looks like there might be a 7 under that 8 too!

[Mr T]

On 6/2/2018 at 11:13 PM, zookeeperz said:

Bit of an anomaly these are both reverse D coins I snapped together this morning there seems to be a difference in the design of the helmet. the top part one has a convex curve to the peak and the other a concave curve making one much more rounded?

Do you have pictures of the whole coins?

[zookeeperz]

10 minutes ago, Mr T said:

Do you have pictures of the whole coins?

Oh I did omit a vital factor which for the life of me I can't see why I left it off. Thinking too far ahead as usual. Both are reverse D but one is 1860 and the other is 1861

Edited June 5, 2018 by zookeeperz

[Mr T]

5 minutes ago, zookeeperz said:

Oh I did omit a vital factor which for the life of me I can't see why I left it off. Thinking too far ahead as usual. Both are reverse D but one is 1860 and the other is 1861

With regards to what terrysoldpennies said there are actually four different sub-types of reverse D on the pennies of 1860 and 1861 but not all of them appear in each year.

[zookeeperz]

11 minutes ago, Mr T said:

With regards to what terrysoldpennies said there are actually four different sub-types of reverse D on the pennies of 1860 and 1861 but not all of them appear in each year.

I noticed also on the 1860 reverse D the ship is floating and not on 1861.  and the helmet plume at the top is closer to the border?  unless the 1860 isn't reverse D? I am looking at the left end of the exergue line and it doesn't seem to curve upwards as it does on the 1861?

 

Edited June 5, 2018 by zookeeperz

[zookeeperz]

Also now I have both coins at hand the 1861 D have distinct differences as well. The trident prongs are thicker on C1 and the distance to the border teeth is less on C1 . BRitannia's thumb lays over the inner circle line of the shield and her thumb seems shorter and fatter (could be wear on the fat part but that wouldn't shorten the thumb) on C1. C2 her thumb is slender and sits between the inner and outer lines of the shield and C2 has the ship floating which it doesn't on C1

[Peckris]

I'm not sure. There's considerably greater wear on C1 than on C2 which COULD account for all the minor differences you see. It's not conclusive of course, but I would estimate they are the same reverse.