1860 toothed errors throughout

[DrLarry]

I have several beautiful 1860's which show multiple errors, although I hesitate to call them errors. there is not as you would expect movement in the legend because many of the letters are completely different forms with curly bases and about 10% smaller than the overstamped larger letters. Throughout the same position of the E and the N's shift laterally.  The P E N N Y  are all originally smaller letters.  On the obverse of these pennies all the lettering is are old curly base types and again smaller.  The bases of the T in Victoria is a completely different size on one i would say by 50%.  I have half a dozen that show the same errors can you please let me know if these are normal for this OBV and REV 

[jelida]

These are all typical die repairs, I like the N over N! I think the letter punches were often held at a slight angle, perhaps aiding alignment, and only part of the letter is entered, other times the whole letter is clearly reinforced. They are really only true varieties if the wrong letter or number was used, or the wrong orientation, or perhaps if the repair is particularly botched, like the F10 ‘triple F’.

Jerry

 

[DrLarry]

ok thanks , so if the letters are of a different type set with curly bases similar to the bases on the half penny and smaller they are just still unimportant.  I had thought perhaps they are illustrative of an earlier layout of the lettering which had been scraped and replaced with the larger letters.  yes I have a few N over N's in both of the PENNY n's 

 

I will keep looking I think I have a B over an R in the 1860 I will verify it and let you know  

Edited May 14, 2018 by DrLarry

[Rob]

I think in the case of the triple F, repairing hardened dies is always going to be a bit problematic as you run the risk of shattering the die as well as getting a clean repair entered perpendicular to the face. Any entry not perfectly aligned would be liable to cause a slightly displaced repair as the punch slips and cuts as opposed to just cutting into softer metal.

Not the same era, I know, but this is a James I halfgroat with a saltire replaced with a spur rowel. Although dies were made with the saltire mark, no silver was struck in this period due to the market price of silver being above face, so no silver was brought in to be coined. Under a loupe there were at least 3 or 4 blows made to enter the spur rowel, all slightly displaced and not as deep as the original saltire. This modified 2nd coinage die is the reason for the entry against S2671 (3rd coinage halfgroat, no rev. stops) which notes mm.24 with reverse stops (2nd coinage) known. Dies for other silver denominations are also known with the saltire overmarked.

[jelida]

The apparently thinner underlying letters and curly bases are often seen, perhaps as the result of partial die fill prior to repair, or a policy of ‘closing in’ or filling broadened or damaged letters on the die prior to re-punching them; I don’t think there is any evidence that different ‘thin’ letter punches were ever used on the bronze series. Also if the repair punch was not held vertically and the strike was shallow, the letter indentation on the die need not be full width. 

Jerry

[jelida]

An 1860 B over R would be very interesting.

Jerry

[DrLarry]

yes I have two that show characteristics of the B over R once I am up and well again I will look, have whooping cough 

[zookeeperz]

3 hours ago, jelida said:

An 1860 B over R would be very interesting.

Jerry

There is also 1860 HALP for HALF Penny although not listed 

[DrLarry]

yes I think I also have one in the 1862 halp penny but thus far I cannot kind another to verify it. I can find them with the metal removed which has left scars but only one where is it joined 

[DrLarry]

I am doing 62's at the moment but I will look it out in the 60's