Coin Weight for Identification please

[Paddy]

I picked up this in a box with a load of other stuff. I believe it is a British Coin weight for 10 Shillings and probably 19th Century, but can anyone tell me any more? I do not have the Galata book, which would probably do it. Weight approx 4.2g, Diameter about 17.5mm.

Thanks!

 

[Rob]

It's a coin weight for an angel. These were valued at 10 shillings from 1551 to 1611 and then from 1620 to Charles I, so without a regnal indicator or pyx mark could be any of five reigns. The lozenges, might suggest Edward VI as these were used on his coinage (pre-1551), but not to my knowledge on Mary's, Elizabeth's or James'. They were used on Charles I's angels, but those I've seen previously had C R in big friendly letters.

Edited to add that the shape of the lozenges is in the style of Ed. 6 posthumous coinage and the pre-fine issue coins as opposed to Briot/Rawlins.

Edited April 19, 2018 by Rob

[Paddy]

Wow thanks @Rob that is great! Much older than it looks.

As it is not in my collecting area, I will be looking to sell it on - what sort of value should I put on it?

[Rob]

At a guess, 10 to 30 quid if genuine as it's a bit battered. The lack of Monarch might be an issue unless already known without this.

[Richard2]

A bit later than that guys. This is a Charles I Angel coin-weight. I’m not sure but think it’s a Briot die . W962. 

And as Rob said ,price is from about £10-30

[Paddy]

14 minutes ago, Richard2 said:

A bit later than that guys. This is a Charles I Angel coin-weight. I’m not sure but think it’s a Briot die . W962. 

And as Rob said ,price is from about £10-30

That sounds right to me - the style and quality seemed too strong for Edward VI. Thanks @Richard2

[will1976]

I've just read the thread and it reminded me of a similar coin weight I have. same design but smaller at 14mm/1.1gm as far as I can tell the legend reads: I.K.MLP 11

[Richard2]

Hi Will, yours is a James I quarter angel (2s 9d) . Briot dies again.The B below the denomination is for  Briot. The legend will read I R M BRIT . From the Galata book of English coin-weights, yours is I think W765

 

[Rob]

Is the damaged mark to the right of the S in the OP a B?

The quarter angel is 2s6d, not 2s9d, so not 1612-1619 when the gold was revalued upwards by 10%.

[Richard2]

The marks before and between the numerals are lozenge punctuation marks I believe Rob. According to Withers, it’s the second coinage revaluation 1612. He goes on to say that no quarter Angels are known for James I. And it’s probable that the weights were made for weighting the Elizabeth quarter Angel

[copper123]

Attractive collectable , very nice

Edited April 20, 2018 by copper123

[Rob]

35 minutes ago, Richard2 said:

The marks before and between the numerals are lozenge punctuation marks I believe Rob. According to Withers, it’s the second coinage revaluation 1612. He goes on to say that no quarter Angels are known for James I. And it’s probable that the weights were made for weighting the Elizabeth quarter Angel

I was referring to the less than clear lozenge after the S in the first post, which could be a knackered B. The image isn't clear enough on my screen to say what it is.

I said not 1612-1619 because they made 11s weights for the contemporary angels, so anything made between these years would reflect the upturn in valuation. There is one in a thread on here somewhere. However, I would question a B signed weight being contemporary with the 1612 revaluation as Briot was engraver at the mint in Paris from 1605 to 1625 and he only appeared in this country during the reign of Charles I. I concur it is probable that they were made for 1/4 angels from Elizabeth's reign or earlier. Presumably, although 1/4 angels were not produced in the 17th century, there were sufficient numbers held by the public to warrant a weight being produced.

[Richard2]

Referring to withers again,” the round weights bearing the portrait and titles of James I were struck after his death in 1632, or later.”

It could also be a B next to the S as you pointed out, w960 also has a long serif on the right inner foot of X

[Rob]

4 minutes ago, Richard2 said:

Referring to withers again,” the round weights bearing the portrait and titles of James I were struck after his death in 1632, or later.”

It could also be a B next to the S as you pointed out, w960 also has a long serif on the right inner foot of X

OK, so using an old angel design die from James? I assume that side has no B?

[Richard2]

No, the side depicting the Angel has no B. Is that what your asking?

withers is showing weights with a B either next to the S or next to the S for Briot dies and non Briot dies. Work that one out. My head hurts and I need a drink.

[Rob]

27 minutes ago, Richard2 said:

No, the side depicting the Angel has no B. Is that what your asking?

withers is showing weights with a B either next to the S or next to the S for Briot dies and non Briot dies. Work that one out. My head hurts and I need a drink.

That's what I assumed. There wouldn't be any reason for Briot to cut a James I legend. The next bit doesn't make sense? Needing a drink I can relate to.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Rob

[Richard2]

Cheers, here’s to a bigun