New 1861 penny variety? F33 N over inverted N in ONE

[jelida]

I think this coin is a valid new variety and would welcome members thoughts. I have already discussed it with a couple of others, who are in agreement.

I bought the coin on Ebay a couple of months ago from Larry Gurney of the 'Mad About Art' charity. Larry frequently investigates coins under high magnification and had noted that the N had been 're-cut wrong' with 'the serif incorrectly cut on the lower limb'. He started the coin at £45, which is what I bought it for a week later as the only bidder. Larry spotted this coin several years ago, and has had at least two of these, and the final photo is from Larry, with permission, showing a close-up of the 'N' of that second coin.

The coin is an 1861 Freeman 33 6+G with the 'N' of ONE on the reverse having a serif at the right base of the right upright, and a diagonal which is broadened and somewhat wedge-shaped. My interpretation is that this is an ' N' in ONE over inverted 'N ', i.e. the 'N' has been erroneously repaired by holding the 'N' punch upside down, I suppose really quite an understandable error. I think also that the repair strike was not quite vertical, leading to the extra serif being slightly above the base of the letter, and meaning that the new diagonal did not align perfectly with the existing 'N' diagonal causing the wedging of the diagonal on the end result.

I am sure there will be more out there, but I have spent a lot of time searching the net over the last couple of months and not found any others.

Jerry

[jelida]

[jelida]

Edited April 15, 2018 by jelida

[1949threepence]

Certainly seems that way, Jerry. The question is, how many are out there? If it's anything like the N over sideways N (Z), then it could easily become a variety in its own right. Nice purchase and neat variety spot by Larry Gurney.

Just a suggestion and feel free to poo poo it, but might it be worth e mailing Michael Gouby to see if he knows of it, or may like to look?

    

[jelida]

2 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

Certainly seems that way, Jerry. The question is, how many are out there? If it's anything like the N over sideways N (Z), then it could easily become a variety in its own right. Nice purchase and neat variety spot by Larry Gurney.

Just a suggestion and feel free to poo poo it, but might it be worth e mailing Michael Gouby to see if he knows of it, or may like to look?

    

I sent an email to Michael Gouby yesterday, and had a reply today to say that he suffered a ‘torn retina ‘ affecting his macula yesterday and subsequently underwent surgery, and is incapacitated for the next month, and cannot at present read. I expressed the hope that he makes a full recovery.

Jerry

[1949threepence]

7 minutes ago, jelida said:

I sent an email to Michael Gouby yesterday, and had a reply today to say that he suffered a ‘torn retina ‘ affecting his macula yesterday and subsequently underwent surgery, and is incapacitated for the next month, and cannot at present read. I expressed the hope that he makes a full recovery.

Jerry

Hope he recovers soon and his sight is not permanently affected. 

[secret santa]

I've added this variety to both Varieties and Rarities websites. Do you have pics of Larry's obverse and reverse ?

[jelida]

1 hour ago, secret santa said:

I've added this variety to both Varieties and Rarities websites. Do you have pics of Larry's obverse and reverse ?

I’m afraid I don’t have them, and I don’t think Larry does but I’ll speak to him, I told him I’d keep him informed of opinion. He was under the impression he might already have sold the coin. He spots a lot of ‘varieties’ - about half the pennies he examines by the figures he gave me- basically repairs and reinforcements that are not erroneous- I don’t think he realised the significance of this particular one.

Jerry

[terrysoldpennies]

When you consider it , its surprising that a 180 degree inversion on the N hasn't happened more often, as it could so easily be overlooked

[jelida]

It’s probably even commoner with the ‘I’ and ‘O’ !🤫

Jerry

[jelida]

I had an email from Michael Gouby today, most importantly his eye surgery seems to have been a success, and he is making a good recovery. He also confirms that he considers the ( F33) N over inverted N to be a genuine new variety, which is a nice confirmation.

Jerry

[DrLarry]

many thanks for your confirmation of the new variety I appreciate your help.  I would like to list more but I am afraid all your experts frighten the hell out of me.  Larry 

[jelida]

Hello Larry, it’s good to see you on the forum. This is the place to demonstrate any other interesting repairs, overstrikes etc you may have spotted. Don’t be afraid to list, people may be forthright in their opinions on occasion but are always keen to help and we can generally reach a consensus. Several of the top penny people in the country contribute to this forum.

Jerry

[DrLarry]

hello Jerry I hope you are getting much better I had not realised until today you were unwell.  I too went down with pneumonia which has stopped me searching .  I have just listed a new discussion on the 1879 penny I have with a large metal addition above the lighthouse.  I will just show the dramatic stuff in the hope we may better understand some of the history.  Be well and best wishes