1799 Halfpenny varieties - 7 relief gunports?

[Paddy]

Could one of you experts on halfpenny varieties help me out with this? I have a very nice 1799 Halfpenny, but wehn I count the gunports I always come up with 7 relief - whereas Spink lists varieties 6 and 9 relief, 5 incuse and a couple of plain hull. Am I misreading it, or are there more varieties than Spink lists?

 

[bagerap]

Sorry for the rough outlining but I think that these are the ports. Six of them.

[Paddy]

19 minutes ago, bagerap said:

Sorry for the rough outlining but I think that these are the ports. Six of them.

 

Ah - so the middle blob is not a gunport but something else? Is there anywhere that shows the various types alongside each other to compare? I also have what I believe are the 5 incuse and the plain hull in less clear condition. If I can work out how to get clear photos at this scale out of my camera, I am quite happy to contribute to such a site!

 

 

[mrbadexample]

5 incuse gunports, P1248. I couldn't help humming the Captain Pugwash tune while I sorted the photo out.

Incidentally, what do you make of the mottled surface? The coin has a few oily colours and I wondered if it had been dipped in a solvent of some sort (petrol?). It's a shame because it's a good 'un apart from that. 

[Paddy]

Seems a little odd that on the 5 incuse the middle blob counts but on the 6/7 relief it doesn't? :-)

No idea what caused your mottling. I would guess it has been cleaned in some strong chemical a long time ago and has since regained some natural toning, but can't disguise the pitting caused by the chemical.

I have tried to get better pictures of my 3 varieties.

In order - 6 (7!) Relief, Plain Hull, 5 Incuse. Interesting when you see them this close together how hugely different the ships are.

[mrbadexample]

9 minutes ago, Paddy said:

No idea what caused your mottling. I would guess it has been cleaned in some strong chemical a long time ago and has since regained some natural toning, but can't disguise the pitting caused by the chemical.

 

No pitting, just marks like something's evaporated from the surface, like water marks on your shower screen for want of a better analogy.

[Rob]

7 relief ports is documented as is 5, 6 & 9. Bramah noted it as his variety 13a in his book (1929). I have one too, as did Nicholson (lot 296). 

[Paddy]

Excellent - thanks Rob, that clears it up. For some reason my copy of Spink mentions 5, 6 and 9 but not 7. I don't have Bramah - does it give any indication of relative scarcity between the types?

Thanks again.

[Rob]

Bramah just says rare for those other than 5. I'd say 7 is about the same as the 9. 5 is normal, and 6 is more common than 7.

[mrbadexample]

I found it interesting that Bramah also notes the design was originally intended for a cartwheel halfpence, hence the curved base.

[Rob]

31 minutes ago, mrbadexample said:

I found it interesting that Bramah also notes the design was originally intended for a cartwheel halfpence, hence the curved base.

They used the reverses on the cartwheel pattern halfpennies for 1797, but these had no gunports. 

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Rob

[Peckris]

19 hours ago, mrbadexample said:

I found it interesting that Bramah also notes the design was originally intended for a cartwheel halfpence, hence the curved base.

Interesting. There are in fact 1798 cartwheel halfpennies, but they were struck for the Isle Of Man and have the 3-legged design instead of Britannia.

[mrbadexample]

4 minutes ago, Peckris said:

Interesting. There are in fact 1798 cartwheel halfpennies, but they were struck for the Isle Of Man and have the 3-legged design instead of Britannia.

Indeed so, as well as 1813.