1953 VIP Proof Halfcrown Help with obverse Dies

[youliveyoulean]

Hi all,

the attached coin was sold as a VIP Proof halfcrown back in September 2015 with LCA lot 414 (part of a 10 coin set).

It was described as dies 1A (Davies 2310), however all I can see is obverse 2 as per the normal proofs. Can someone help clear up my understanding (or lack of!) on the differences associated with these 2 obverse dies?

I have the 1982 1st Edition of BSC by Davies which may have been updated.

Thanks for your time.

[zookeeperz]

10 minutes ago, youliveyoulean said:

Hi all,

the attached coin was sold as a VIP Proof halfcrown back in September 2015 with LCA lot 414 (part of a 10 coin set).

It was described as dies 1A (Davies 2310), however all I can see is obverse 2 as per the normal proofs. Can someone help clear up my understanding (or lack of!) on the differences associated with these 2 obverse dies?

I have the 1982 1st Edition of BSC by Davies which may have been updated.

Thanks for your time.

From your picture that is 1+A I of elizabeth to space between teeth . Davies says this die pairing on the Proof is unconfirmed

[Nick]

Looks like obverse 2 to me.  Both obverses exist in both proof and currency.

I use the cross (+) to differentiate the two, although there are plenty of slight differences.  Obverse 1 is just left of bead, obverse 2 is directly to bead.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Nick

[Martinminerva]

Definitely obverse 2 : I of DEI to bead.

[youliveyoulean]

3 for and one against for now. Assuming this is obverse 2, does this mean it is not a VIP Proof? Any chance the handful of VIP proof sets issued could have been produced from different dies? 

[Nick]

5 minutes ago, youliveyoulean said:

3 for and one against for now. Assuming this is obverse 2, does this mean it is not a VIP Proof? Any chance the handful of VIP proof sets issued could have been produced from different dies? 

I guess it depends on when they were produced.  If it was at the beginning of the 1953 production, you would expect obverse 1, but if they later decided there were some additional VIPs that needed sets then they could be obverse 2.

[zookeeperz]

1 hour ago, Nick said:

Looks like obverse 2 to me.  Both obverses exist in both proof and currency.

I use the cross (+) to differentiate the two, although there are plenty of slight differences.  Obverse 1 is just left of bead, obverse 2 is directly to bead.

I went by what was in Davids book . The only thing is with the coin pictured It has both characteristics of obv 1 I of Elizabeth  to gap First A in Gratia to Gap bit has obverse 2 marker on I of DEI as it points to a tooth rather than a gap?

 

Edited November 29, 2017 by zookeeperz

[PWA 1967]

Not knowing anything about these i have been looking with interest.

Martins post above is the best indicator i would of thought as not any doubt.

I of DEI to bead........Looks to be spot on if OBV 1 is to gap 

Also the + Nick mentions although again would need to see the other OBV.

Ideally be nice to see two coins pictured the same size next to each other......but obviously different OBV .

[Nick]

1 hour ago, PWA 1967 said:

Ideally be nice to see two coins pictured the same size next to each other......but obviously different OBV .

Two 1953 proof halfcrowns.  Obv 1 on the left.  There are quite a few small differences.  The L of ELIZABETH is also quite a good differentiator.

 

[sabrejv]

2 hours ago, Nick said:

Two 1953 proof halfcrowns.  Obv 1 on the left.  There are quite a few small differences.  The L of ELIZABETH is also quite a good differentiator.

 

Another good differentiator in the two images is the edge at the back of the neck/bust, and where it is in relation to the BR in BRITT:
The left hand image (Obv. 1) lines up to the trailing edge of the B, but in the right hand image (Obv. 2) it nearly lines up with the leading edge of the R in BRITT.

Edited November 30, 2017 by sabrejv

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

I've lost track as I've been comparing the 2 coins, but I have noted easily more than half a dozen differences.

They range from the placement of the + and some of the colons, the positioning of certain letters, and the alignment of the upper hair ribbon in relation to the N in OMN, as well as the the alignment of the rear of the bust as noted by Nick in the preceding post.

The only item I haven't checked and compared as I'm on my cell phone and haven't had an opportunity to print out the images, is to count the border teeth.

[craigy]

the rare one is the frosted proof from the plastic set, i of DEI to a space, anything else is bog standard, trust, i got ripped off by Ingram coins over one of these coins so i  am now a bit of an expert 

[craigy]

On 11/29/2017 at 6:42 PM, Martinminerva said:

Definitely obverse 2 : I of DEI to bead.

you might want to go here   (been a bit of a discussion of late as to proof, vip proof, frosted proof) 

 

 

 

here  

here 

 

 

[craigy]

Here is my 53 proof set, the silvers(cupro nickle) are all cameo, and only the half penny is cameo (frosted) out of the bronzes